2019 View 24D - first trip

[markap12013]

Finally received the 24D I ordered way back in early Feb. It's a 2019 D on a 2018 chassis. Ordered most of the options - dual pane windows, FBP etc. Very nice. Worked very well with only the most minor of issues - the right hand under sink door was mis-aligned (I fixed that) and the igniter for the larger burner doesn't work but the burner lights with a match. Other than that, no issues on a 2000+ mile trip.

I will be ordering Sumo's, Koni's and a Hellwig fairly soon...

I do have a question regarding the solar panels - in full sun, I should see about 5 amps from each panel (total 10+) in full sun regardless of the state of the batteries - right? So far, I've been mostly in clouds or shade but I'm not convinced that I'm getting max amps from the 2 100W panels. Also, the ZAMP controller never shows the batteries as "fully charged" despite long drives or shore power so I'm not sure exactly what I should be seeing.

On the positive, the refrigerator seems to be working fine - at 4.5 setting, the freeze was +7 to -7 and the fridge was at +38 most of the time with brief spikes after opening to load/get food. My SIL (MS in Nutrition) says +50 for less than 2 hours ok for food. (Outside temps were 90+ and high humidity so A/C was cranking all day) I've tented in weather like this many times and really appreciated the View every time I walked in the door)

Unless someone has an idea how to fix the ignitor, I guess I'll schedule a visit back to the dealer in the next week or two.

Best regards to all,
Mark

[Winterbagoal]

Congrats on the new coach.

We picked our 2018 a few months back and still haven't managed to get out on a full trip in it. Life does get in the way sometimes. We've managed to put some miles on it locally, and so far haven't noticed any major issues.

Our fridge seems OK as well. I'm plugged in and experimenting with settings and it seems that at 4 or just below, we get decent temperatures top and bottom. We rarely keep anything in the freezer, so it's not a concern. We tend to ad hoc our supplies and use the fridge primarily for bottled water and short term foods and condiments.
As for the panels, the ZAMP PWM charge controller doesn't maximize the current to the batteries like an MPPT one might, so I can't help you there except to say wait until you get it into full sun for a while and try to reduce any parasitic loads, and you should eventually see FUL in the status display. I see it fairly often while plugged in. Usually in the morning after being plugged in all night and the sun just coming up. Maybe you've got something plugged into one of the inverter powered outlets in the coach somewhere? Or the fridge draw at 12VDC is pulling down the batteries. I'm certainly not an expert on solar charging systems, so this is just my opinion and speculation.
I will say that I've ordered a 3rd panel to add up top. It's only an extra 5.6A or so, but every amp helps when recharging your DC supply. I'm probably also going to be one of the View/Navion owner's group that upgrades the OEM coach battery bank, in the near future, too. It's a little lightweight for off grid camping, in my opinion, based on what I've seen so far.
I will say that so far, it's looking like a really great coach for the two of us, and we're looking forward to our first real trip out in the real world.

[luvlabs]

Does the stove ignitor generate a spark? If it doesn't, then look for a loose wire underneath. If it does, there is a little trick to light the stove. Push and turn the flame control knob and hold it down. Press the ignitor and continue to hold the knob down for another 15-20 seconds. Let go and the burner should stay on. Safety feature with that type of cooktop.

You have a couple of pretty good draws on the electrical system that you might not be aware of. The propane valve draws 1 amp/hr. You can fix this pretty easily with a homemade or purchased voltage reduction device. Join the View-Navion group on Yahoo and do a search. The inverter will draw 3-5 amps when it is in standby. If you don't need it, turn it off.

Your refrigerator draws a fair amount of power but only when running. 200 watts of solar might, on a very sunny day, keep you charged enough but not at float charge level.

And another good project (forget the suspension stuff, you aren't going to gain vary much for the dollars spent) is to replace the house batteries with something that holds a lot more amp hours. Good old 6V deep cycle golf cart batteries will do a far better job than the 12V batteries Winnebago provides. Add a Tric-L-Start while you are at it, and this will keep you chassis battery charged between trips.

Enjoy your coach!

[kayak70]

Zamp panels I suggest you check them. In full sun, good overhead angle you should indeed see about 5.6amps/panel. I posted about the Zamp over on the new forum spun off from this one. I had one panel completely fail in 4 months, still waiting for the replacement. The "cells" on Zamp panels cup really bad in the heat meaning flex which leads to bad connections and failure. If you have a bad panel it is a bear to remove the old one and I took mine to a service shop. They had already replaced four Zamp panels from Views, knew about it and told me they would probably damage the roof as careful as they could be. They did slightly, not bad, because the panels are glued and screwed to the roof.


Two things to remember as luvlabs points out, leave the inverter off unless needed and do not leave the LP switch in the on position, both are current draw constant, adds up fast.



Batteries, sigh, batteries. I have been struggling with what to do. Thought hard about Lithium, near $3k, but what do you do with a compressor fridge when they reach 93% charge and the BMS shuts em down? I was planning to mount a 300amp lithium under the kitchen sink. OK, back to reality and go with perhaps T-145 etc in series, GC2 batteries. Nope, not at all without a ton of mods to the battery tray, serious mods. WGO made the tray to accept the NAPA 24DCM battery. To put anything taller, longer or slightly wider requires a welding shop and a torch or cutting wheel to the battery tray. I will refrain from stating my opinion of this design flaw. Guess. Now I found a decent battery set that will fit, Lifeline GPL-4CT. It takes a bit of thinking but they will sit in the tray, use the brackets even and turned correctly (looks backwards) you can use the original cables in place with one new longer cable needed to make the serial + to - connection. Not all the amps I wanted at 220AH but it will have to do, not feeling like chopping the battery tray with a cutoff tool and having one fabricated. Seriously, look at the battery tray very closely if you are looking at good batteries. There is indeed one other option over lithium, mount one GPL-31XT Lifeline in the existing tray and another in the front compartment and run new cables from there to the tray for the second battery. That will work and give you 250AH. If you don't dry camp a lot you won't have a problem, just use the dinky batteries OEM and stay in camps with plugin pedestal. Boondocking and NP camps get a bit more complicated with the compressor fridge.


Glad your refrigerator is working, ours is fine now after replacement.

[kayak70]

If you move the Litefuse for the inverter to another location and run new cable from battery to it you can get a T-105 or small GC2 batteries there but check carefully the height and width, very tight. Depending on the battery you might need to run a new ground cable etc. The setup is for 24DCM and less than 10" height. The battery tray bottom is designed on my View so you can't use the opening length either, must chop off or completely remove the bottom of the tray, bummer. Then of course you must fabricate a new tray bottom. First time for everything they say and this new View is keeping up with that theory. There is a post on the spinoff forum showing pics of the mod one owner of a new 24D did to mount T-1275's in his rig, cutout the bottom of tray and shoved em in, very tight. If you are prepared to do that work there are several options to get you up to 250-300 amps. Great with this fridge and boondocking. All new batteries as noted will consume OCCC so weight is a factor as well. As noted in the refrigerator post my fridge runs greater than 50% duty cycle and consumes 5.6amps in maintenance mode after cool down which takes 8amps according to the tech manual. You can do the math based on your use of the RV features. Not a rig made to dry camp in at all. If you use a CPAP with humidifier it is a tight energy budget during the night time.

[markap12013]

I did the mod to the LP switch to reduce amps and hardwired in a PI EMS with a shortened cord/plug. Ordered new ends for the existing cord so all is good there - much easier to plug into the gen and store the cable.

Since we both don't retire until the end of this year (want that 401k match to vest), I'll keep these batteries a bit longer and hope the lithiums come down. A friend installed a couple group 27 Battleborn batteries in his Sprinter Van along with 500+W solar - good results so far. I think the batteries are slightly under $1000 each and weigh in at 29lbs each - nice but pricey. Have not checked yet to see if I can cram in the group 27's.

Still can't get the larger of the two burners to light except with a match - looks like good spark (maybe very slightly more yellow that spark on small burner) but will not ignite - will call dealer.

I noticed that the window in the back has two "vents?" on the right side molding as viewed from the outside - there is a plug in the lower one and not in the upper one. Anyone know if I'm missing one or have one where it should not be? The plug is about 1.5 inches by 1/4 inch...

Kinda disappointing to read that spending $1000+ on suspension parts won't add much - was really hoping to stiffen things up a bit. Big transition getting out of the BMW into the View - have to remind myself when going in/out of driveway aprons

I'll park this thing in some nice direct sun soon and really check the panels - I do intend to add one more to the top. I read that the controller can only handle 150W input on each plug - so, is a 160W panel ok or a no-go?

Otherwise a great coach - no issues with the fridge or the mattress on the Murphy. I do have to list the couch seat up when the slide is in to completely open the fridge door but that is a minor inconvenience

Best to all

Mark

[Winterbagoal]

You got me thinking bout lithium now. Very spendy up here in the Great White North. $1200 each for the 100ah models, before HST.
Wonder if the built in BMS protects them from temperature issues with charging/recharging? I've seen a few other lithiums that say they have protection from charging them when it's too cold or hot. That would work for me.

Where did you find the propane valve mod info?

[markap12013]

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

You got me thinking bout lithium now. Very spendy up here in the Great White North. $1200 each for the 100ah models, before HST.
Wonder if the built in BMS protects them from temperature issues with charging/recharging? I've seen a few other lithiums that say they have protection from charging them when it's too cold or hot. That would work for me.

Where did you find the propane valve mod info?

I found it on the View-Navion tech group on Yahoo
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/.../topics/202967

$40, very easy install is is supposed to drastically reduce the draw of the valve. I put it in, no current measurements but also no impact on functionality.

The Battle Born batteries seem to be well thought out. My friend has only had them for a couple months but no issues yet https://battlebornbatteries.com

Looks like they will fit but have not examined them closely yet (group 27 only)

[Winterbagoal]

Thanks for the valve mod source. I'll have a look.

I'm pretty sure the BB GR27 batts are drop in. At least that's what they say, so I'd imagine the specs are the same. I think I compared the widths for the existing tray, and the GR 24 and GR 27 are the same. They'd be a bit wider, left/right, in the existing tray. Would have to remeasure to make sure first.
2 of the BB GR27 100ah models would be an enormous improvement over the GR24 maintenance free lead acid wet cells Winnebago gives you with these coaches. Considering the amount of $$$ many of us have spent on them, you'd think these sorts of things would at least be a factory option that you could order at time of purchase. I would have liked the option for a factory installed 3rd solar panel, Michelin tires, or a BBQ grill connection off the main propane tank, to name but a few. If you're spending that much on the motorhome, I would have liked the option to go "all in" at the factory.

[kayak70]

Originally Posted by markap12013

.....snip...
The Battle Born batteries seem to be well thought out. My friend has only had them for a couple months but no issues yet https://battlebornbatteries.com

Looks like they will fit but have not examined them closely yet (group 27 only)

Relion, BlueLife, Battleborn, all good. The BlueLife has builtin BMS which bluetooth connects to Android or Apple devices, nice. They should be stored inside the rig to keep above 32*F, period and at 93% SOC the BMS disconnects the battery - say driving down the road your fridge turns off. That means you gotta have a backup AGM or something and relays to switch. It just is not simple with the compressor fridge, sorry.


Now, group 27 batteries will NOT fit in the 24D, at least in my 18V24D. The bottom ends of the battery tray will need to be chopped off and support added to hold them. I have spent hours studying this thing and wondering and using smurf words about why WGO made the tray this way. Perhaps they changed it for 2019, don't know. There is ONE GC2 battery which will fit, Duracell Ultra from Batteries + Bulbs @ $130 ea. and 20hr rate is 235 amp hours. Trojan = no fit, too tall without major mod, the Duracell is a Deka I believe, OK. The other great battery which fits in the tray without major welding, chopping etc. is the Lifeline GPL-4CT, rated at 220 AH, pretty good batteries. Remember, the battery tray in this rig is made for group 24DCM batteries aka the NAPA dinkys they installed at factory. Anyway, look at the bottom of your batteries and see the tray ends - the maximum length measured with my fat body crawled underneath with the tape measure is 21.5 inches. Two 12+ inch batteries are not going in this rig without major mod to the tray = chop off the ends. You won't go taller than 10.8" and you can not make the tray depth greater even if you chop it off and have a shop weld a new bottom in because the steps retract very closely below that tray bottom.


I also had an issue with the stove top burning properly at delivery, refused to sign until they had it working. Little did I know that was a minor problem compared to issues that popped up later after they had the cash. Bottom line they got a good tech on it and I can't tell you what they did past purging the air from the system. They ran the furnace a while even, and I had them put water in the tank and test the Truma (they did not have a clue how to make it work). We got out the little tiny manual and read how to use it. Once the furnace and Truma ran about 10 minutes we tried the stovetop and it worked and has worked since perfectly. Good luck with that one. Don't forget to add the electric kit for antifreeze to the Truma. I had to order the thing but it takes about 5 minutes to install after reading the instructions - yeah, I actually read them.


The EMS was a tough install for an old man but it was worth the effort, as you know I did the same thing about second week of ownership. The thing about the LP switch for those of us with a compressor fridge is simple, leave it turned off and no latch current. Only time it is a draw is when you need hot water or if you need the furnace or using the cook top. We keep it off and use as noted to save energy but eventually I'll get around to the mod as well.


IMHO the best mod for suspension first would be great shocks, read over at the Sprinter forum, Winnebago Itasca Sprinter forum. The Fox new shocks sound great, good reviews. The OEM shocks are just not adequate for a loaded RV.


Just talked to the shop, my replacement solar panel has not shipped from Zamp, they have the old one. Have had it two weeks. Bummer, we leave out for 3 months in 3 or 4 weeks, gotta get moving. Asked them to light a fire and send smoke signals when they get an delivery date. So much for the "two day turnaround" from Zamp. When working with the Zamp tech, really nice guy, he said I could put 160 watt panel on top and plug it in no problem. 420 watts max to the 3-port connector, 160 watts max on a single port. Call them and talk to them, they have good tech support and friendly. I don't know if they are really the hold up or my shop just forgot to mail the panel since June 4th

[kayak70]

Forgot to say that when looking at the battery tray opening from the top you can measure plenty of space to add two 12.5" (group 27 or 31) batteries. Like I said, the TOP space is not the problem, look at the bottom of the tray and you see the angled ends turned up at 90 degrees effectively limiting you to 21.5" of battery length if you stuff em right together. Sad, hard to believe, true! It is almost like the WGO engineers sat around in a huddle and tried to design flaws into the rig with the compressor fridge, like, ha - they will have to work to put in real batteries - great job! Now I must admit about 10 years or so ago I would have dragged out my cutoff tool and turned on the giant air compressor in the shop, chopped those ends off and welded a support bar underneath. Now - nope, just too old and ornery and the pacer won't let me use an arc welder, would need a torch or mig, oops, no mig either. The battery group sizes have variations in application and brand. Look hard before you buy and decide how you want to fly, first class or "in the back with the mass". Really study Lithium before you jump and spend $3k or so on a 300 amp battery because you will need to have a relay system or manual switch to a backup battery when the SOC hits the limit like driving down the road etc. Plugged into shore? Better have a backup battery and switch system, going over 93% SOC on lithium is death to the battery and the BMS won't let it happen, shut down.

[luvlabs]

The 235 amp/hr Duracell GC2 6v deep cycle battery fits just fine except it is taller than the batteries supplied by Winnebago. You can either modify the WBO hold downs or create a new one out of a couple of steel plates and a piece of threaded rod. There is an easy way to clamp the batteries down to the tray underneath the batteries in the space between the two batteries. One plate goes on the top edge of the two batteries, the other plate goes under the existing support. Nothing else needs to be moved or cut.

I would really like a way to have four of those batteries, but I haven't heard of anyone doing that yet.

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by luvlabs

The 235 amp/hr Duracell GC2 6v deep cycle battery fits just fine except it is taller than the batteries supplied by Winnebago. You can either modify the WBO hold downs or create a new one out of a couple of steel plates and a piece of threaded rod. There is an easy way to clamp the batteries down to the tray underneath the batteries in the space between the two batteries. One plate goes on the top edge of the two batteries, the other plate goes under the existing support. Nothing else needs to be moved or cut.

I would really like a way to have four of those batteries, but I haven't heard of anyone doing that yet.

Someone mentioned putting batteries under the sink. It would be close to the battery bay under the entry steps, but ventilation of anything short of a sealed AGM or lithium battery might be a problem. Cables could be run underneath from the battery bay to up through a hole drilled in the floor under the sink to your extra 2 batteries.

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by kayak70

Forgot to say that when looking at the battery tray opening from the top you can measure plenty of space to add two 12.5" (group 27 or 31) batteries. Like I said, the TOP space is not the problem, look at the bottom of the tray and you see the angled ends turned up at 90 degrees effectively limiting you to 21.5" of battery length if you stuff em right together. Sad, hard to believe, true! It is almost like the WGO engineers sat around in a huddle and tried to design flaws into the rig with the compressor fridge, like, ha - they will have to work to put in real batteries - great job! Now I must admit about 10 years or so ago I would have dragged out my cutoff tool and turned on the giant air compressor in the shop, chopped those ends off and welded a support bar underneath. Now - nope, just too old and ornery and the pacer won't let me use an arc welder, would need a torch or mig, oops, no mig either. The battery group sizes have variations in application and brand. Look hard before you buy and decide how you want to fly, first class or "in the back with the mass". Really study Lithium before you jump and spend $3k or so on a 300 amp battery because you will need to have a relay system or manual switch to a backup battery when the SOC hits the limit like driving down the road etc. Plugged into shore? Better have a backup battery and switch system, going over 93% SOC on lithium is death to the battery and the BMS won't let it happen, shut down.

From the Battle Born website - specs on their 12V x 100ah lithium batteries...

100 Amp Hour, 12 Volt Battery
LiFePO4 Chemistry
3000- 5000 Cycles
100 Amp Continuous Current
200 Amp Surge Current (30 Seconds)
1/2 second surge for higher loads
Drop in Replacement for Lead Acid Batteries
Acceptable Voltages 14.4 – 14.6 for bulk charging
3 Year Warranty
Designed and Assembled in the USA
12.75 x 6.875 x 9 (L x W xH)
29 lbs
5/16″ x 1″ Bolt set included

I just measured my battery bay under the entrance steps. Standing outside facing the steps, it's 29" long (side to side), by 8" wide (front to back), by 13" deep measured at the base upon which the GR24 OEM batteries are sitting. The usable length is 29" minus 1.25" per side where the edges are turned up = 26.5" of width. Two of their 100ah batteries 12.75" wide X 6.875" X 9" high/deep will fit in that space. I've subtracted the .5" of width eaten up by the threaded rod that acts as part of the tie down system at the front of the lower part of the compartment. So, I'm not sure why you've said you couldn't get 2 GR27 batteries in there. I believe they will fit.

Also, could you please explain or post up a link to where it says that any lithium iron phosphate (LiFeP04) battery BMS shuts it off or disconnects it from the 12VDC supply system when the SoC reaches 93%? I'm curious to know why they would do that, and am trying to understand lithium battery systems, and their idiosyncrasies. I've done internet searches and can't find anything that relates to the 93% cutoff process you've mentioned.

Thanks.