Lane Closure Driving

[engine103]

[QUOTE=rrtribble;4266626]If the sign says lane closed x miles it doesn't mean right now!
My friend at the Illinois State Police headquarters told me that officers deal with people at every construction site because they don't want to follow basic driving courtesy or lawful instructions given.
I wasn't trying to get ahead of everyone else I was simply following common sense driving.



One persons common sense is another persons aggravation. Jim E OKC

[WyCamper]

Or, one person's common sense is another person's complete lack thereof.

[simplelife]

I agree, it's either impatience or the consideration of others doesn't apply to me train of thinking . See it all the time. I'm going to guess this will be the same guy travelling along the left lane at 65 because that is what the speed limit says so I'm allowed to do that. NO, stay right except to pass.

[bbqdad]

Originally Posted by Freqz

What law gives truck drivers the right to block a lane? What law gives them a right to truly to put some one in the ditch if they try to pass them on the shoulder (I’ve seen that several times...)

The discussion is about proper merging in construction zone, HOWEVER since you brought it up... the shoulder is for emergencies/breakdowns, not for travel, by law. Soooo... if you drive down the shoulder in a trucks blind spot and you end up in the ditch, that will be your crack up, cleanup and ticket in every state in America. You take your chances, sometimes you win... sometimes you DON’T!

[bbqdad]

The zipper rarely works in an 18 wheeler for the same reason... you can have 3 cars alongside the truck and won’t let him engage the zipper and they keep coming until a truck shows up in that lane.

[IronRick]

Originally Posted by bbqdad

The discussion is about proper merging in construction zone, HOWEVER since you brought it up... the shoulder is for emergencies/breakdowns, not for travel, by law. Soooo... if you drive down the shoulder in a trucks blind spot and you end up in the ditch, that will be your crack up, cleanup and ticket in every state in America. You take your chances, sometimes you win... sometimes you DON’T!

If a person is driving on the shoulder then they are clearly breaking the law. It is also breaking the law for anyone else to pull onto the shoulder to obstruct someones right to break the law. The only person permitted to enforce traffic laws is the POLICE, not you.

As a truck driver in the right lane you will CLEARLY BE ABLE TO SEE A VEHICLE ON THE SHOULDER EXCEPT IN A CURVE. To put a car in the DITCH because you don't like what they are doing is clearly AND LEGALLY WRONG. Maybe they are experiencing a MEDICAL EMERGENCY. YOU DO NOT NOW.

My son growing up in his 1st. 6 years of life had 16 Surgeries and 23 Hospital stays. He is now in his late 30's and very healthy. He would have an attack at ANY TIME and it happened twice while driving. On one of those occasions I had to pass cars on the shoulder to get him to the hospital. This is BEFORE CELL PHONES however I would do the same thing today as EVERY MINUTE COUNTED.

99.9 % of all shoulder drivers are doing it to pass others however do you want to be responsible for that .1% who is doing it to get a loved one to a hospital? Do you want to be responsible for that life? If someone would have cut me off into a ditch that day my son would be DEAD. That's how close he was to death.

[Superburban]

When I used to drive in the Boston area, Cars driving on the shoulder on the major highways,was common during rush hour. I understand it is also legal for cars in several other big cities.

[bbqdad]

Originally Posted by IronRick

If a person is driving on the shoulder then they are clearly breaking the law. It is also breaking the law for anyone else to pull onto the shoulder to obstruct someones right to break the law. The only person permitted to enforce traffic laws is the POLICE, not you.

As a truck driver in the right lane you will CLEARLY BE ABLE TO SEE A VEHICLE ON THE SHOULDER EXCEPT IN A CURVE. To put a car in the DITCH because you don't like what they are doing is clearly AND LEGALLY WRONG. Maybe they are experiencing a MEDICAL EMERGENCY. YOU DO NOT NOW.

My son growing up in his 1st. 6 years of life had 16 Surgeries and 23 Hospital stays. He is now in his late 30's and very healthy. He would have an attack at ANY TIME and it happened twice while driving. On one of those occasions I had to pass cars on the shoulder to get him to the hospital. This is BEFORE CELL PHONES however I would do the same thing today as EVERY MINUTE COUNTED.

99.9 % of all shoulder drivers are doing it to pass others however do you want to be responsible for that .1% who is doing it to get a loved one to a hospital? Do you want to be responsible for that life? If someone would have cut me off into a ditch that day my son would be DEAD. That's how close he was to death.

I did imply that I would force someone in ditch, I simply mean the chooses to run the shoulder, the risk is all his. As it should be.

[SGTrvlr]

Zipper will work great once everyone understands and agrees where the Zipper is. For it to work as designed in America, it must be a moving location...where the backup begins, not a fixed point where the lane ends. Open lane moving at 30mph that must slow ( or stop) to allow a stopped vehicle to enter, will always delay the flow. Had the stopped vehicle merged when the slowdown first occurred everyone would continue at 30 mph. Once people pass the traffic in the open lane and run to the end of the closed lane, the Zipper theory no longer works as intended. If you disagree, please explain why all traffic moves when there is someone pacing / blocking (ie truck) the closed lane.

[Cooperhawk]

Taking the coach in for work this AM I traveled through some construction work on I35 north of Faribault.

Returning north bound I wish I would have had my camera handy. First the signs said, "Use Both Lanes during slow downs."

Then, just prior to a merge a sign said, "Take turns merging."

To make it real a highway patrol cruiser was setting in the median watching.

Worked pretty good but traffic was fairly light.

[Superburban]

Originally Posted by SGTrvlr

Zipper will work great once everyone understands and agrees where the Zipper is. For it to work as designed in America, it must be a moving location...where the backup begins, not a fixed point where the lane ends. Open lane moving at 30mph that must slow ( or stop) to allow a stopped vehicle to enter, will always delay the flow. Had the stopped vehicle merged when the slowdown first occurred everyone would continue at 30 mph. Once people pass the traffic in the open lane and run to the end of the closed lane, the Zipper theory no longer works as intended. If you disagree, please explain why all traffic moves when there is someone pacing / blocking (ie truck) the closed lane.

What you are describing, is the get over when you can method. Don't pass any one in the other lane, you all just merge into one lane and keep moving. That works well all over the country in lane closures everywhere. But construction zones people tend to give up being nice.

The zipper method wants everyone to go to the end, and then take turns merging. By going to the end, and merging, someone has to slow down to let the other lane in. Even the computer animations show cars coming to a complete stop. There is no way it can be faster.

The construction folks like the zipper, because it slows the traffic down. Less chance of accidents in the construction zone.

Funny how in construction zones, people quit being friendly, and think they are entitled and can pass traffic that got there before them, May as well hold up the middle finger as they pass the others.

[Bigd9]

Originally Posted by Superburban

What you are describing, is the get over when you can method. Don't pass any one in the other lane, you all just merge into one lane and keep moving. That works well all over the country in lane closures everywhere. But construction zones people tend to give up being nice.

The zipper method wants everyone to go to the end, and then take turns merging. By going to the end, and merging, someone has to slow down to let the other lane in. Even the computer animations show cars coming to a complete stop. There is no way it can be faster.

The construction folks like the zipper, because it slows the traffic down. Less chance of accidents in the construction zone.

Funny how in construction zones, people quit being friendly, and think they are entitled and can pass traffic that got there before them, May as well hold up the middle finger as they pass the others.

Absolutely not true.

[Superburban]

It certainly is. Read any study that is for or against it, and they all list a benefit of having reduced speed in the construction zone. Other benefits listed are varied through out the studies.


By default, one of the site managers goals is workers safety. Get the overall speed down, and they do not have to implement other costlier safety measures.



Look at studies against it, and many will say:
"Engineers say the zipper merge only works in high-traffic, low-speeds situations. If it’s a work zone where you’re traveling closer to freeway speeds, experts say it is still better to merge early and safely. "


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/zipper-...rs-say-kansas/


There is no way anyone can scientifically, mathematically, statistically,or by observation, or any other way, that anyone can prove that the driver flying past others in the closed lane, makes it faster for all drivers. Its impossible. Yet a good portion of the articles make that claim, but offer no proof. Call it a conspiracy, fraud on the public, a push for safety, whatever you like, there is no proof.



Studies are about 2 to 1 for the zipper, but read the reports, and the justifications show bias towards the construction zone safety. But reports with actual data show accidents overall, are about the same. But overall speeds are reduced with the zipper method. Look it up yourself.



Coming from a family of Engineers, and truck drivers, this has been discussed quite a bit at family reunions.


From the same link:
"“We understand it’s about convenience in some other areas, but here in California, we’re all about safety,” Caltrans spokesman Mark Dinger said.

Dinger said his state continues to encourage drivers to merge early.
“We don’t want those people to cut in at the very last second. Not only can it lead to road rage incidents but again, it can lead to sudden braking which can cause a direct collision,” Dinger said."


Nuff said.