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Old 08-20-2017, 07:47 PM   #1
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Load-shedding ain't shedding

Found out today that my 2016 TOUR (new to me) is not performing the 'shedding' that is should. I'm under warranty, so Winnebago will be given a shot in fixing the problem.

Here's what I observed:
Roof AC #1 draws about 14 amps as reported by my POWERLINE EMS. But when AC #2 or AC #3 is running (and their compressors are indeed drawing current), the POWERLINE reports they are drawing zero amps. Here in high summer temps, all ACs were trying to cool my rig today, then my wife turned on the microwave and the toaster oven. No "shedding" occurred and about 2 minutes later, the 50-amp campground breaker tripped.

So just wondering: Where are the EMS power-sensors located? My guess is that sensors for AC 2 and AC 3 never got connected. I'll be checking the Washer/Dryer current-draw soon to see if it is / isn't registering. Your thoughts?

Thanks.
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Old 08-20-2017, 08:36 PM   #2
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The sensor is on the neutral line to monitor amp draw. If your EMS is like this one, it only operates when it detects a 30 amp service. On 50 amp service, which is actually a total potential of 100 amps, the EMS goes inactive and does no shedding of power. 3 A/C units should only need about 45-50 amps, leaving 50 amps for other electrical use.
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Old 08-20-2017, 09:51 PM   #3
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Robi.1014, Here is the link to the power controller used in your coach. The brochure explains the operation. There is a sensor on each leg of the incoming power and it will shed loads when on a 50 amp services.
http://www.precisioncircuitsinc.com/...hure-Rev-B.pdf
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Old 08-21-2017, 05:41 PM   #4
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I will have to give kudos for the powerline management system. While running several high amp loads it shed the rooftop heat pump and turned on the gas furnace! That was impressive.
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:18 PM   #5
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The reason the campground breaker has tripped is it could be due to a looses connection or a defective breaker. Most breakers are thermal and excessive heat can cause them to trip prematurity. The one thing I really like how it will move some loads over to the inverter. This way you can have more power than the campground can give.
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Old 08-22-2017, 09:18 PM   #6
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BFlinn181:
Thanks for the HTML link. The EMS you show was the one used in my 2004 Monaco Diplomat, so I know that unit quite well. And it gave me good service.

grtharris:
Your link shows the EMS that my TOUR actually has. My rig documentation (User Manual volume 2 of 2) has a pretty-good write up that expands on what you offered. But my expanded documentation still doesn't clarify how the roof AC roof current-draw is actually measured (is it just a value that some factory technician "fat fingered" into the EMS memory storage? ... or is there some sort of induction transformer that reports actual current-draw to the EMS?).

For BFlinn181:
I'm learning that (on my rig) roof AC #1 and #3 are powered by "L1" (leg 1 of 50-amp legs L1 and L2). Roof AC #2 is powered by "L2". So when the campground 50-amp breaker tripped, it was because AC 1 & 3 were consuming 28 amps, and just by happenstance, other AC power in the coach (microwave, TV, toaster oven, etc.) caused the draw on L1 to exceed 50 amps. No shedding occurred. L2 was well under 50 amps at the time. But as you probably know, if either L1 or L2 exceeds 50 amps on its respective leg, the tandem breaker in the campground power-pole trips the whole shebang: both L1 and L2.

Still studying my problem. Thanks all for your input...and I await more detail if available.
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Old 08-22-2017, 09:39 PM   #7
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Robi.1014 The EMS until located in the Load Center Panel has two CT's (current transformers) one for each power leg, L1 and L2. If the EMS is working correctly any current on L1 and L2 should show up it the read out.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:25 PM   #8
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Grant,
Yes, the L1 and L2 current-draw values are being shown correctly. And L1 was showing 54 amps just before the campground-breaker tripped. So I'm still at a loss as to what is failing on my system. Load-shedding is not taking place.

So....
Is my EMS not detecting loads that are, collectively, adding-up to that 54 amps?....or is the EMS just not programmed (by the manufacturer) correctly?
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robi.1014 View Post
Grant,
Yes, the L1 and L2 current-draw values are being shown correctly. And L1 was showing 54 amps just before the campground-breaker tripped. So I'm still at a loss as to what is failing on my system. Load-shedding is not taking place.

So....
Is my EMS not detecting loads that are, collectively, adding-up to that 54 amps?....or is the EMS just not programmed (by the manufacturer) correctly?
The higher amp draw could be caused by reduced voltage. Did you see what the voltage was before the breaker tripped?
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Old 08-23-2017, 09:15 PM   #10
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Robi.1014, as mentioned above "breakers are thermal and excessive heat can cause them to trip" if the power pedestal was in the sun the breaker could be derated by ambient heat enough to trip will before you actually pulled 50 amps. A good check of the EMS readout is to turn on one load at a time and see what the reading is and which leg it is on. Also as noted the inverter should have been helping with the loads connected to it.
Note current draw on the inverter will not show up on the EMS panel. The link below is to the AC wiring diagram look at the last page and you can see what is on the inverter and what is not.
http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/...ire_188513.pdf
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:17 PM   #11
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<Did you see what the voltage was before the breaker tripped?>
The CG was good power. EMS was showing 114 or 117 -range.
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Old 08-25-2017, 02:47 PM   #12
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Robi
It is highly likely that the breaker tripped before the EMS could take action shedding the load. It is also likely that the breakers in an RV park have been well used and may even have tripped below the leg limit of 50amps. I any event, I suspect you will just have to be aware of how the EMS operates and plan accordingly. Good luck,
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Old 08-25-2017, 03:10 PM   #13
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Speaking from the 30 amp point of view, where I have to be aware of what's running before I turn on any other heavy draw item - I question whether this problem is worth taking it to be fixed.
I'm not sure that it's worth the time and effort (and possibly aggravation) to have Winnebago take a look at it. (Actually, I'm quite sure that *I* wouldn't do it, but that's just me ).

We hear/read too many horror stories about how X company had the RV for WAY than the repair should have taken. Or that Y company did more damage doing the repair than the initial problem it was brought in for.

To me, it's a fairly simple matter of just being aware of what's running before you turn on something else. In my book, that's not worth the aggravation of taking it in for service. But that's just my book, your book may have different pages in it.
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Old 08-25-2017, 04:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Podivin View Post
Speaking from the 30 amp point of view, where I have to be aware of what's running before I turn on any other heavy draw item - I question whether this problem is worth taking it to be fixed.
I'm not sure that it's worth the time and effort (and possibly aggravation) to have Winnebago take a look at it. (Actually, I'm quite sure that *I* wouldn't do it, but that's just me ).

We hear/read too many horror stories about how X company had the RV for WAY than the repair should have taken. Or that Y company did more damage doing the repair than the initial problem it was brought in for.

To me, it's a fairly simple matter of just being aware of what's running before you turn on something else. In my book, that's not worth the aggravation of taking it in for service. But that's just my book, your book may have different pages in it.
I agree with you, learning about your power usage is always a good idea. 50 amp RV service is actually 100 amps of potential energy use, divided into two 50 amp legs of input. As I read the specs of Robi.1014's EMS (the correct one grtharris provided) should have shed the loads on the leg that was trying to exceed 50 amps. Since he paid for the RV with a EMS to prevent such issues, he's correct in taking it in to have checked out.

Since I don't believe his total power use never approached 100 amps, it's just too bad the EMS can't take excess loads from one leg and transfer it to the other, lesser used leg of power. It would of course require many more components and add complications to the system, but it would be nice to have.
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