Love the Winnebago, Freightliner chassis...not so much!

[Elkhartjim]

Thanks for responding. Its not what I was hoping you would hear and I'm sure not what you wanted either. I know Winny has Freightliner build a special chassis for them; does the 34 have the Winny designed chassis? I'm only asking because it seems only a few owners have had a handling problem as severe as you.

Good luck and I sure hope the Safe T Plus works.

[Texas TC]

The 34Y is on a standard XC-S chassis. It is built for the diesel pusher market in a lower weight rating for the smaller and lighter coaches. As far as I know, it is the same chassis for all house brands and not anything special for Winnebago:

XC-S Motorhome Chassis

The XC-S chassis has a straight-rail RV frame and lower weight rating, a prime choice for anyone moving up from a gasoline-powered motorhome into a diesel pusher.
Features

• 55-degree wheel cut
• 9" high steel frame
• Smoother ride and handling
• Front air disc brakes as standard
• Rear radiator with fan clutch
• Quiet ride
• GVWR: 26,000-34,700 lbs.

If you own a motorhome riding on an Freightliner XC-S chassis, you get all the premium benefits of diesel technology at a lower weight rating. Front and rear air suspensions for a smooth, comfortable, confident ride. A 55-degree wheel cut for excellent maneuverability. Lowered rear frame rail allowing flat floor throughout the coach. And the FCCC hallmarks of reliability, quality, durability and maneuverability. No wonder this RV chassis is always the preferred choice for those looking for their first diesel-powered motorhome.

[Pusherman]

I have been to Camp Freightliner, and I too am a fan of Mike Cody. He knows his stuff. I also own a 34' Journey, and have had similar concerns.

There is a 'however' here, in that any manufacturer who doesn't use certain parts as OEM, may not recommend them for handling improvements.

As many have posted before, regarding improving handling on a Freghtliner chassis:

Weigh your coach and set tire pressures based on the tire manufacturer's recommendations.

Have the coach aligned (probably not your issue, but cheap insurance).

Install Motion Control Valves - helps significantly on the side-to-side sway.

Install Koni FSD Shocks - will help ride and handling.

Install a Super Steer Bell Crank for improved steering performanc

Install a Safe-T-Plus for improved steering stability in cross-winds, etc.

None of the chassis manufacturers have all the 'goodies' that many have installed to improve chassis performance, for whatever reasons we can imagine. The aftermarket products do improve performance. Just do a search on this forum and you will find a lot of endorsements for these products.

[Chuck 1935]

I have a problem with Independent Front Suspensions on trucks and motorhomes. It seems that the most handeling complaints are with vehicles with IFS. In my estimation there is way too much geometry going on which opens the door for all kinds of suspension problems. When you have to start throwing after market parts on it to make it work, something is really wrong with the design. I'm sure others may differ but for me I have never had a Motorhome that had handeling issues and I have never had one with IFS.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by Elkhartjim

I'm disappointed! Where are those that believe the tire pressure should be set by the coach manufacturers plaque?

Maybe they finally learned to do it correctly and weigh the rig then use the correct tire charts?

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

This is off the subject but still related to the wind, my Journey does rock some in crosswinds, but my biggest gripe is the awnings pulling out a little then slamming back hard in a crosswind. Does anyone else have this problem? Asked my dealer and he said to pull over until the wind calms down

Yep, lots of people have lost awnings. Putting ties around the arms will NOT cure it. You need to have a positive lock on the roller tube itself. Some have made their own out of the pull down rod, others have purchased one like I did.
I gave a deposition in a wrongful death suit over just this happening.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by resqguy

You can dismiss the recommendations for the wheelbase to length ratio of the RV Consumer Group but in this case I think they have a point. A 34ft motorhome with a 208 in wheelbase puts the ratio at 50.9 % which the RVCG considers dangerous. I wouldn't blame Freightliner for the laws of physics.

It would be hard to blame Freightliner for it at all, they only provided the chassis that the MH manufacturer spec'd. The MH manufacturer is the one to blame for building too long a rig on the short chassis.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by RickO

It was my understanding that the pressures on the sidewall was the maximum pressure the tire can hold while carrying the maximum weight it is rated for rather than the best ride. Tire mfgrs recommend specific pressures for specific weights.

Rick

Not true!
The pressure on the sidewall of a truck type tire is the MINIMUM pressure for the maximum weight rating of the tire. On car tires it is the maximum the tire should ever have.
You can read this in the Michelin, GoodYear and Toyo RV Tire Guides or in the Michelin Truck Specifications.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by Pusherman

Tire manufacturers do not rate the tire pressure on the sidewall for the best ride, they rate it for maximum weight carrying capacity.

See my post above for the correct answer about maximum tire pressures!

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by Texas TC

I had the coach weighed full of fuel and water, and, this morning, I had it weighed without water and only 25 gallons of diesel in the tank. I wanted Mike to see what the variables are when trying to get 80% of 10410# on the front axle. I have not found a way to do that, full or empty yet without adding ballast but am open to his suggestions.

In some extreme cases "they" have had to add weight to the front axle using a 2" pipe filled with lead to get the proper weight distribution. Not the best method but it might be the ONLY way to do it in some cases.

[GreaTOne65]

From my experience, driving big rig trucks, anything less than 100# in any of your tires is asking for or flirting with a blow out. Low air pressure lets the side walls flex which causes them to heat up, causing blow outs. On our trucks, we were hauling over 100,000#s on 6 axels, we maintained 120# in them, we had tires with 100,000 miles on them, with no blow outs.

You all are welcome to do what you want, you own the thing, but, in my humble opinion, running any tire at 85# is asking for an ugly surprise.

[The Shadow]

Originally Posted by Mr_D

It would be hard to blame Freightliner for it at all, they only provided the chassis that the MH manufacturer spec'd. The MH manufacturer is the one to blame for building too long a rig on the short chassis.

Agreed. But I think it is the terrible wheel base that is the source of the problems and that is Winnie's area. The length is actually 35 ft according to the web site and with the 208 inch wb that means the ratio is LESS than .5. To be exact 208/420 = .4952.

Sorry, I wouldn't touch a MH with that ratio with a 10 ft pole.

The 39N is much better - 267/479 = .557.

We had a 2004 39W and it had a very good ratio and we never had any problems with the handling.

I just do not understand what the Winnie engineers and designers are thinking when they build an otherwise nice unit with a wb/length ratio under .5.

This is one I'd even consider if it was .55 or better. One of the problems with a shorter DP is that you need a certain amount of room behind the rear axle for the engine and transmission so I think this is an inherent problem and why I'd personally look at a FRED as an alternative (knowing the noise comes back up front). A mid-engine short diesel would be a better idea. Of course TS did one (but it was big) and they've gone out of biz.

[offthewall]

Originally Posted by GreaTOne65

From my experience, driving big rig trucks, anything less than 100# in any of your tires is asking for or flirting with a blow out. Low air pressure lets the side walls flex which causes them to heat up, causing blow outs. On our trucks, we were hauling over 100,000#s on 6 axels, we maintained 120# in them, we had tires with 100,000 miles on them, with no blow outs.

You all are welcome to do what you want, you own the thing, but, in my humble opinion, running any tire at 85# is asking for an ugly surprise.

You can't simply make a blanket statement on pressure like that. It depends on the tire and load. There are certainly cases where putting 100lbs in a tire is too much, will result in a reduced contact patch, bad and/or dangerous handling and increased tire wear.

As others here and the tire manufactures recommend; Have your rig weighed, consult the tire manufacture's charts, set the pressure for the load you are carrying. Adding a little extra is a good idea just in case your load distribution changes slightly. But putting too much air in a tire can be almost as bad as too little.

Re: this whole discussion on the reported bad handling of the Winni 34Y. As I have said before in this thread, I have the Itasca version of the same MH, a 2010. Running 95lbs front, 100 rear. It handles and drives like a dream. Way nicer to drive than the 2008 Wrangler we also tow. I still believe the original poster's issue is load distribution and tire pressure - short of something actually being broken on his unit. IMHO, there is nothing inherently wrong with the 34Y design or engineering. I previously owned such a badly designed RV. A 30' 6" E450 based Class C. That vehicle was too long for it's wheelbase, had too long an overhang, was dangerously close to the GVWR when empty. After a front end alignment, shock and steering stabilizer upgrades, sway bar upgrades, etc. it finally was drivable. It was NEVER fun to drive. Our 34Y is actually fun to drive.

If I were the original poster, I would add some more weight, especially to the front and re-adjust tire pressures accordingly.

[Texas TC]

I wish I could report that all the Freightliner and posters on this thread's advice had helped but I am still having handling issues with my 34Y. After Camp Freightliner, I adjusted my tire pressure, added ballast to load the front axle, and added, at the advice of Michael Cody, a Safe-T-Plus. Yesterday was the first time I could get it back on the road for an extended trip. I have been to races around Dallas but no travel on the open road since making all the changes that were proposed. Once again, I find myself trying to keep up with where the wind is taking the coach. I am going to get the alignment checked when I get back to Dallas in a week or so and after that, I have no clue. I am just sick at my stomach for buying this coach. DW and I love the floor plan and the and quality of the rest of the coach. It is just a bear to drive. I don't know where to go to give up!

TxTC

[stik]

I, too, have been very happy with the handling of my 2009 Freightliner chassis on my Journey 34Y. This is my 3 motorhome. What experience have you had before this with motorhomes? No matter what else is posted, high cross winds are going to present problems with any motorhome. There will be those that say "I've driven directly through 2 hurricanes and a tornado and my "so and so" motorhome tracked straight down the highway with only 1 finger on the wheel" Granted some will handle "better" than others and you must remember that the term handling it self is subjective and not lend to quantitative, factual analysis.
Again, not picking on you, but can your experience level be contributing to perceived handling problems? Did you have Freightliner actually look at your chassis while there, or just attend the Camp? I am just asking as I can't imagine there being significant differences between my 09 and your 2011 34Y chassis. I have put 15,000 miles on my 34Y in 18 months. I am very happy with the "handling" i.e. it is comfortable for me to drive. Under windy conditions it can definitely be a handful and require more attention, but consider the surface area that is exposed. It will definitely not respond to winds like a car or SUV, physics won't allow that. No amount of add on devices will compensate for high and/or buffeting cross winds.
To me the 34Y is MY perfect blend of handling and floor plan that all motor homers strive for.
I wish you good luck and hope you can finally resolve your issues before giving up on the motorhome.

[Pusherman]

I have a 34' Journey (2007) coach, and it handles very well for me. I love driving it.

I haven't gone back to read all 75 posts on this subject, so forgive me if this information has already been offered (maybe even by myself):

The cheapest and best solution for sway in an air-bag equipped coach are Motion Control Units (MCU's). In an air-bag equipped coach, they act like sway bars, and what you're describing sounds like sway, although I obviously have not driven your coach to experience what you are experiencing. P.S. I'd be happy to if you were in my area.

MCU's are offered by a couple manufacturers. One is Super Steer (google them and you will find plenty of references on them). They install in the air lines of the air bags, take very little time to install and cost on the order of $200 per axle for the valves themselves.

If you search this forum, you will find plenty of happy owners with MCU's installed on their coaches, including me. They definitely improve handling in windy conditions. Probably the best and least expensive after-market addition you can make to an air-bag equipped coach to improve handling.

[Elkhartjim]

Originally Posted by Texas TC

DW and I put in our first full trip day in our new 2011 Journey Express 34Y.

We completed our 640 mile day but I was definitely not real comfortable driving in the mountains after that.

Personally, if I were to drive my Rolls Royce (jesting of course) 640 miles in a day I would probably think (hallucinate) poor handling.

[nsdienes]

Have had RVs since 1978, C's and A's. Gas and diesel. MCU's on my Meridian 34Y is the best improvement I have purchased. Ever.

N Dienes

[mrschwarz]

Originally Posted by nsdienes

Have had RVs since 1978, C's and A's. Gas and diesel. MCU's on my Meridian 34Y is the best improvement I have purchased. Ever.

N Dienes

I have a Meridian 37H and say the same thing.

[Texas TC]

This is my third motor home. The previous two were Super C's. The first one was on a Kodiak chassis and had it's own handling issues. I only kept it for a year and traded for a SuperNova on an International Class 6 truck chassis. That coach handled perfectly. The only time I knew the wind was blowing was when I stopped for fuel. I never felt crosswinds or passing semi's. We put over 46000 miles in that coach in the 4 years we owned it. We have put just over 5200 miles on this new coach and 90% of the time it is white knuckle driving. Granted, most of our travels have been in Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona which are notorious for having high winds.

For those of you with motion control units, do you add to both axles or just the front?

Freightliner told me two stories about them. The tech line told me that some owners were happy with them and Mike Cody at the camp told me they were not useful on their chassis. I had a set on order and they sent them to the wrong Camping World. I went the Safe-T-Plus route instead at the suggestion of Mike.

I really want this coach to work. Yesterday, we came accross New Mexico and Arizona on a clear, crisp, low wind situation and we drove 379 miles at 75 mph with not a single issue. It all depends on the wind and it does not take much to move the coach around.

On a positive note, I changed from towing a Jeep Wrangler to a full sized Silverado 4x4 and only lost .5 mpg. I got around 10 with the Jeep and got 9.5 towing the truck both at 65-75 mph. I was pretty happy with that mileage. I really like the DEF engine. This little ISB has plenty of power to pull the rig and toad down the road.

I am still going to get the alignment checked and may try the MCU's. We are going to be in the North Phoenix area for a week before we start back home. I am just praying for two nice calm days of driving for our 1100 mile return trip.

TxTC