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Old 01-14-2019, 07:03 AM   #1
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No breaker on electric pedestal

Have reservations next month at a campground in Florida that was hit by the hurricane. The campground and surrounding area are open for tourists. However, I just found out that when the campground installed new electric, the pedestals do not have any breakers. According to the latest reviews, each RV is asked to turn off their main breaker before plugging in. I don't have a problem with that but I'm more concerned with the safety and any other possible issues that might occur due to not having a breaker. In all my years of RVing I have never come across this. Any thoughts or concerns?

Mike
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Old 01-14-2019, 07:14 AM   #2
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I'm with you, no breaker is a departure from the norm and certainly not industry standard. I have a Surge Guard 34850 that would make me feel more comfortable, as it checks the power before allowing it thru to power the coach. With that, I would not mess with the coach breakers. Have you got something like this?
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Old 01-14-2019, 07:24 AM   #3
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Can you please provide the name of the RV park so I can avoid it? I travel throughout Florida and would like to steer clear of this park.
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Old 01-14-2019, 07:27 AM   #4
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If they rebuilt so cheaply that breakers, which are required by code virtually everywhere, weren't installed I have to wonder where else they cheaped out. Totally agree with earlier poster, avoid this place at all cost.
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Old 01-14-2019, 07:47 AM   #5
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I doubt they do not have CBs......just none AT the pedestal
There will be CBs upstream. Probably in a gang box that is locked



Should feeder CB trip you have to contact Staff to have it reset


*haven't been to this particular CG that I know of but have come across SAME during our travels
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Old 01-14-2019, 07:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit View Post
I doubt they do not have CBs......just none AT the pedestal
There will be CBs upstream. Probably in a gang box that is locked



Should feeder CB trip you have to contact Staff to have it reset


*haven't been to this particular CG that I know of but have come across SAME during our travels
I've seen this same thing at marinas I've kept my boat it.
It prevents people from turning off your breakers just because they think it's a good time.
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Old 01-14-2019, 07:54 AM   #7
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Doesn't sound consistent with the NEC.

2011 NEC 551.2 Definitions

Recreational Vehicle Site Supply Equipment. The necessary
equipment, usually a power outlet, consisting of a circuit
breaker or switch and fuse and their accessories, located
near the point of entrance of supply conductors to a
recreational vehicle site and intended to constitute the disconnecting
means for the supply to that site.

551.77 Recreational Vehicle Site Supply Equipment.

(A) Location. Where provided on back-in sites, the recreational
vehicle site electrical supply equipment shall be located
on the left (road) side of the parked vehicle, on a line
that is 1.5 m to 2.1 m (5 ft to 7 ft) from the left edge
(driver’s side of the parked RV) of the stand and shall be
located at any point on this line from the rear of the stand to
4.5 m (15 ft) forward of the rear of the stand.
For pull-through sites, the electrical supply equipment
shall be permitted to be located at any point along the line
that is 1.5 m to 2.1 m (5 ft to 7 ft) from the left edge
(driver’s side of the parked RV) from 4.9 m (16 ft) forward
of the rear of the stand to the center point between the two
roads that gives access to and egress from the pull-through
sites.
The left edge (driver’s side of the parked RV) of the
stand shall be marked.

(B) Disconnecting Means. A disconnecting switch or circuit
breaker shall be provided in the site supply equipment
for disconnecting the power supply to the recreational vehicle.

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Definitions and (A) included to emphasize that "Site Supply Equipment" means the power pedestal or something similar at the RV stand, where the umbilical cord is plugged in.

My oldest copy is 1990, and it says essentially the same thing using fewer words. I'm sure those feeders are protected by CBs somewhere, probably in one or several panels around the facility. I've seen plenty of marinas wired this way over the years.

Not that any of it matters, as it is what it is. But it doesn't look 'normal' as I read the NEC.
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Old 01-14-2019, 07:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit View Post
I doubt they do not have CBs......just none AT the pedestal
There will be CBs upstream. Probably in a gang box that is locked



Should feeder CB trip you have to contact Staff to have it reset


*haven't been to this particular CG that I know of but have come across SAME during our travels
Nevertheless, if there is a problem with any of the pedestals and or a neighboring RV that trips a main breaker it would cause a huge inconvenience. I would avoid this type of cost cutting installation of electrical service.
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Old 01-14-2019, 07:57 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by kjsportster View Post
Nevertheless, if there is a problem with any of the pedestals and or a neighboring RV that trips a main breaker it would cause a huge inconvenience. I would avoid this type of cost cutting installation of electrical service.
In the ones I've seen that I mentioned above, each pedestal still has a separate breaker, it's just in a locked panel with all the other breaks for all the other pedestals.
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Old 01-14-2019, 08:01 AM   #10
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Ellengton Gardens Resort, in Brandonton FL. didn't have breakers at the outlets. Just a short post and outlet. I don't see the concern, the circuit would still be protected.

Stayed a month without problems. If it's that concerning, make up an inline breaker box.

Don't some surge guard devices have on/off switchs ?
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Old 01-14-2019, 08:08 AM   #11
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Not unsafe but as stated above not to code. RV ped is a sub-panel. My concern is there a 50 amp breaker at the other end. You must have access to your power. It's ok as long as somebody in charge is always in the campground 24/7. I'm guessing this install was never permitted. There should be an investigation into this. Call County Building Dept and ask if a permit was issued. If it was then the Building Dept is at fault.

Residential sub-panels do not have main breakers in the panel and are code compliant. NEC calls for main breakers on the campsite

Turning off you RV main before plugin should be done sign or no sign.
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Old 01-14-2019, 08:17 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavie View Post
Not unsafe but as stated above not to code. RV ped is a sub-panel. My concern is there a 50 amp breaker at the other end. You must have access to your power. It's ok as long as somebody in charge is always in the campground 24/7. I'm guessing this install was never permitted. There should be an investigation into this. Call County Building Dept and ask if a permit was issued. If it was then the Building Dept is at fault.

Residential sub-panels do not have main breakers in the panel and are code compliant. NEC calls for main breakers on the campsite

Turning off you RV main before plugin should be done sign or no sign.
Agree
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Old 01-14-2019, 08:21 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Podivin View Post
I've seen this same thing at marinas I've kept my boat it.
It prevents people from turning off your breakers just because they think it's a good time.
At marinas, at least smaller ones, the main panels are "within sight of" the PED. Code compliant.
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Old 01-14-2019, 06:47 PM   #14
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we have run into this. there was a breaker for each site located on a common panel a few sites over from us. that panel served maybe 10 sites.


but here is where is got worse. there was a single breaker for each site and that breaker was a 50 amp breaker. yet the site pedestal had both a 30 and 50 amp receptacle. the 30 was wired using just one of the two hot legs that fed the 50 amp receptacle. thus the 30 amp receptacle could provide 50 amps out of it and would not trip until it exceeded the 50 amp breaker in the common panel.
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