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Old 07-15-2018, 05:18 PM   #1
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Phoenix AZ @ 110+ temps and no shade.

RV is in storage in Phoenix, we fly in and use it. Was their end of May and again end of June. May we headed north for cooler weather, June was a short trip and close to July 4th could not find a place to stay to get out of the Phoenix heat.
>> So my Question <<
My 2006 Itasca 36G has a basement air conditioner. AC (air conditioner) is not able to keep RV cool in Phoenix with 110 to 115+ temps. >> Is this normal, or do I have a problem.<<
AC kicks in about 9 AM (outside temps at about 100) and the AC will run continuous till about 10 or 11 PM. Inside temps rise to 85 with no cooking or anything else to add to the heat load.
RV is parked N-S so I get full sun all day, absolutely no shade. If I use the awning it helps in the morning, as long as their is no major wind. I put in about $60 worth of reflective insulation in ALL the windows and doors and roof vents etc.
I can hear the 1st & 2nd compressors start, and (when on the generator) the load is +- 22A. So I am thinking the AC is working?
Other than in Phoenix (110+ temps) I have had no concerns. RV is Brown & Tan, so the heat load is extreme, at times the window frames will get so hot you can't leave your fingers on the aluminum frame, the walls are warm to the touch after full sun exposure.
>> Do I have a AC problem << Or is this to be expected at 110+ temps.
Campground is only about 1/3 or 1/4 maybe less full. And many of the RV's show signs of heat related problems, Residential AC units in windows, or dark screen over the RV to lesson the heat load? I talked to 2 of my neighbors. One was a almost new Motorhome, dark brown, they said they were comfortable other was a classic from the 80's white with 2 roof AC units, parked E-W he was having problems with his 30A service breaker tripping, so he was warm from time to time?

I put in a portable AC unit in the lounge area, and it will bring the temp down to the 60's after a short time.
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Old 07-15-2018, 06:38 PM   #2
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is your windshield facing N or S? if S consider adding a windshield sunscreen as that's where a large majority of the heat is coming from. the windshield heats up and radiates that heat into the interior.

two types of screens...interior and exterior. for interior use try something like this: https://www.campingworld.com/multi-purpose-foil-4-x-10 (available at many places). tape the shiny side up against your windows. we had the same issue as you several years ago. after we purchased and put up the foil the interior temp of our MH dropped by nearly 20-deg in 30-minutes. the only down side is you'll have perpetual night inside the MH.

an external windshield screen will filter out the UV rays that produce heat but still allow you to see outside in the daytime (note: you still need to use your privacy curtains at night as you won't be able to see out but others can see in.). after much research we chose the MagneShade but there are quite a few different mfgs. we chose the MagneShade because of the ease of putting it up and taking it down.

- other things you can do is park facing north or east (if you're not already).

- also consider bringing in the slides during the hot time of the day. less sq to cool means better cooing.

- check your AC filter(s) and clean as needed.

- check your floor or ceiling vents and make sure you have good air flow.

- we use a floor fan to move air around.

good luck.
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Old 07-15-2018, 07:26 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rk911 View Post
is your windshield facing N or S? if S consider adding a windshield sunscreen as that's where a large majority of the heat is coming from. the windshield heats up and radiates that heat into the interior.

two types of screens...interior and exterior. for interior use try something like this: https://www.campingworld.com/multi-purpose-foil-4-x-10 (available at many places). tape the shiny side up against your windows. we had the same issue as you several years ago. after we purchased and put up the foil the interior temp of our MH dropped by nearly 20-deg in 30-minutes. the only down side is you'll have perpetual night inside the MH.

an external windshield screen will filter out the UV rays that produce heat but still allow you to see outside in the daytime (note: you still need to use your privacy curtains at night as you won't be able to see out but others can see in.). after much research we chose the MagneShade but there are quite a few different mfgs. we chose the MagneShade because of the ease of putting it up and taking it down.

- other things you can do is park facing north or east (if you're not already).

- also consider bringing in the slides during the hot time of the day. less sq to cool means better cooing.

- check your AC filter(s) and clean as needed.

- check your floor or ceiling vents and make sure you have good air flow.

- we use a floor fan to move air around.

good luck.

Thanks for your input.....

We did (most) everything you suggested, next visit will park E-W for sure. All my reflective insulation is on the inside...

My main question was is this to be expected on my unit, or do I need to get involved with a AC man.
Hate to try to get AC work done when temps are 100+ as they have to pull the AC to do testing? Any AC is 1000 times better than NO AC. I am guessing once the summer heat is over, will be forced to take it some place to verify their is no problem. That will be another task trying to find a good AC shop either in Phoenix or hopefully Prescott AZ?
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Old 07-15-2018, 07:31 PM   #4
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Doubtful you have a problem- though your amperages seem off.

Our Coleman Mach basement AC pulls 15amps (leg 1) and 12 amps (leg2). The difference is its also running the condensor and evaporator fan, even when its only on one compressor. We can run both sides on a 30amp service, with 27 amps going to AC, and 3 amps going to the Fridge...and....all the lights off lol.

Our AC is in excellent health and is not able to keep up on 100F+ days either. This is pretty normal. You'll find most people install a "kicker" AC unit. We have an additional 13.5k rooftop unit in the bedroom of our 5th wheel.

I've seen a few Winnie's with a 15k in place of the fantastic fan in the living area/kitchen.
With all three units we have over 40k BTU of cooling power (thats over 3 tons!!) and can stay very comfortable in the heat.
I'm from AZ, and its too damn hot to be there right now. That's why we are in Oregon .
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:14 PM   #5
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Everything you've mentioned sounds normal to me. Keeping an unshaded RV in direct sunlight cool is a challenge and yours sounds like it's doing the best it can. A 25F differential is about as good as you're going to get because it's an A/C, not a freezer. I predict your RV will be 95F inside when it's 120F outside.

Mine draws 22 amp to 27 amp when it's first started running and mid day when it's so hot. After it's run a while and cooled the RV off, or it cools down outside, it drops down to 17 amp in sort of a maintenance mode. Works slick.

Mine has 4" of ceiling insulation, dual paned windows, and I have the reflective bubble wrap I put in the windows when necessary, also have front window screens, keep the awnings extended, etc.. But there were days down in Yuma where there were hot spots here and there in the RV. My floor A/C did a yeoman's job though. No complaints.

I would suggest you head up into the hills outside of Phoenix if you're going to be around there any length of time. Up to Flagstaff maybe. Or find some place that has shade of some kind, even if it's just next to a building that casts a shadow. Without any shade at all, a N-S orientation IMO is about the best you can do. With those big front windows facing north.

I knew I wouldn't want to stay in those temps for too long so I'm up in Idaho now. At 4,000 feet but we're still seeing temps in the mid 90's. But the parks I've stayed at have shade so it's been comfortable during the hottest part of the days.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:03 PM   #6
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Thanks THANKS THANKS.....

I didn't really want to hear it, but I was expecting the responses I got.
At least I feel their is nothing (major) wrong with my AC. Just too 'darn' HOT for a Tan & Brown RV. I didn't mention that I have maybe 1/3 of my roof covered with solar panels. I'd hate to see how hot is gets with the full roof exposed to the sun. Solar panels also make it a real pain in the butt to install a rooftop AC.

Maybe 6 or more years ago I bought a Haier 14,000 BTU (old rating system) at Costco. Still in the box till my last AZ trip. I set it up just behind the passenger seat and like I said in the first post in a short time the air temp was down to 65 in the lounge / dining area.
Comfort to know the basement AC is doing about all it can to deal with Phoenix temps.
Thanks Again!!!
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:14 PM   #7
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You might check to see if the duct going from the ac up the back in the rear cap to the ceiling is connected tightly. We had a 03 and they was a problem with many becoming loose and spilling out some cold air into the rear cap. It’s a bear to fix , many have to remove the rear cap.
That said as others I think it’s as good as it gets ... the front and rear caps are not insulated. Most techs told me a 20deg difference inside to out was about normal.
Shade is your friend if you can find it!
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:27 PM   #8
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Yes that is normal, not fun but normal. We had 38ft Fleetwood with dual pane windows, window awnings, front reflective, and outside windshield sun screen, running both AC 13500 btu early in the morning, it still would climb to uncomfortable ranges inside 85F and up. ACs were putting out 20-21 degree air cooler than they sucking in-so a 20 delta. And even had tree that shaded part of the MH in the afternoon. Ended buying a two hose portable ac 1200btu. With that we could maintain any temp we wanted. With it set at 78 on a 112F day it only needed to run about 20-30 minutes per hour to help the other two ACs maintain 78F. This was over several years we stayed in Tucson AZ. Our outside colors were a mix of black band up high, with a tan band and some white. Taking temperatures of the outside skin with a infared gun, the black was 168F the tan was 152F white was 148F this was on a 107F ambient day in direct sunlight. The inside alum window frames were 117F. as was the framing around the slide out. But again the portable AC two hose design worked well for three summers. Much cooler in Idaho!!
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Old 07-16-2018, 06:37 AM   #9
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Another Question.....

Before this 'problem' and in the responses some have mentioned that a AC is considered as doing as expected if it can produce 20/25 degree difference between


? input / output ? temps or

? outside / inside ? temps........ (which is it?)

I don't question this statement as I have heard it for years.
Question is when I add a portable AC the temps drop another 25 degrees to the mid 60's in less than 30 min.
The portable is a 2 hose unit sucking and blowing outside air.


Thanks again for all the great info....


Where does the 20/25 difference calculate with the 2nd AC.
OR is it that normal AC design is calculated on a system only capable of a 20/25 degree change.



The 20/25 degree info is a proper designed system, not a limit of the cooling concept.
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:34 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnie_g View Post
Before this 'problem' and in the responses some have mentioned that a AC is considered as doing as expected if it can produce 20/25 degree difference between


? input / output ? temps or

? outside / inside ? temps........ (which is it?)

I don't question this statement as I have heard it for years.
Question is when I add a portable AC the temps drop another 25 degrees to the mid 60's in less than 30 min.
The portable is a 2 hose unit sucking and blowing outside air.


Thanks again for all the great info....


Where does the 20/25 difference calculate with the 2nd AC.
OR is it that normal AC design is calculated on a system only capable of a 20/25 degree change.



The 20/25 degree info is a proper designed system, not a limit of the cooling concept.
The AC is considered working correctly if the air the AC is drawing inside air being sucked in to the a/C and the blowing air out is 20-25 degrees cooler. I also have to say it does appear that the inside of my MH would stay 20-25 cooler than the outside temperature, but as the outside temp went up so did my inside temperature. On the portable AC I never ran a temperature difference on the intake and the air coming out. The two hose portable AC I had used the outside air to blow across the condenser then back outside---the evaporator cooled the only the inside air. The single hose portable AC do not work this way. If I remember correctly on those they take inside air use that to cool the condenser then that air is exhausted. So you are taking inside air and removing it-- so that means somewhere the outside ambient air has to be sucked back into the MH to replace the air that was exhausted. Everything I read said the two hose was the way to go. And that's what I used and I had no more trouble keeping the MH cool up to 118F.

I believe the 20 degree temperature is the design spec of the AC. If you had a MH that that had excellent insulation no windows and painted white then a AC with a 10 Degree drop in temperatures would cool it. The problem is most motor homes only have walls 11/2"-2" thick wall so you can only get so much insulation. Then you add the internal metal framing that touches the outside wall and the inside and you have a path for heat. So saying all that what happens is the MH is gaining more heat than the A/C can remove. So if you have two A/C 13500 each and they are removing 27000 btus from the MH and you are gaining more BTUs say 28000 btu from direct sunlight and the outside ambient its going to get Hot. The more expensive RVs have much better insulation in the roof and floor ( my Fleetwood had almost no insulation in the floors). Paint color also makes a huge difference. Having the portable A/C two hose was the only way for me to go without adding another A/C to the roof. Hope that helps! Stay cool.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:02 AM   #11
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Thanks, YES that IMO about covers it.....
Like you said, too much heat gain, not enough cooling. Add in the portable and all is well.
I really appreciate all the info you all passed on to me.
Hopefully we all will have a cool enough summer, though from the forecasts I am sure plenty of us will be considering either heading to cooler places, or adding a 2nd AC to the mix.


Thanks again
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:26 AM   #12
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We follow good weather all year long.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:33 AM   #13
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We had trouble keeping our RV cooled off back in June when we visited some property we have in Alabama. I had totally forgot to bring the windshield cover (goes on the outside) and the windshield got very hot and radiated that heat into the couch. Bummer.

Good news is my mother-in-law shortened her stay with us.

Rob
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:43 PM   #14
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We were at Lake Havasu for 5 days over the 4th of July with temps at 110 and 112 every day and by 8:30 am it was hitting 90 deg. We were pointed north, no shade, and only 30 amp pedestal. I was able to keep the awning out all morning til pm winds picked up but by then the sun was hitting the drivers side.

My coach is 40 ft, 24k btu basement unit, with a lot of black at the roof radius and black frame windows. I keep a close eye on the rear duct work since I've had leaks bust out 3 times over the 14.5 years since new. Use an infrared temp gun to look for cold air up around the vertical vent in rear cap.

At night the ac would get temp down to 68 where we set it. By 8:30 am the ac would run non stop til 9 or 10 pm. In the mornings we would need something to keep us warm for a couple of hours but by 10 am it rose to mid 70's and would hit 80 by noon. Around 2 pm it was 84-86 and that's when it started to feel uncomfortable for us. So we would take off for the boat on the lake. My thermometer would store the max inside temp of 90-92.

I would buy a portable roll around 10-12k ac unit, and get 50 amp site if I had to spend a lot of time in desert temps. But like others stated, we are mobile and head to cooler temps and vice versa in the winter. Right now we have a pleasant 89 next to a big cottonwood tree at 6000 ft in Colorado. Life is good.

Happy trails,
Bill
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