Community Forums

kayak70 · 02-24-2018, 06:09 AM

I am starting a new thread so that new owners who might drop by can peruse other's experience with the new Norcold 12VDC/120VAC compressor refrigerator in the 24D. This is a Thetford/Norcold unit DE0061R, not the old compressor which was reliable. My testing so far shows (redundant from other posts):

On 12VDC operation, battery and solar, the fridge draws 5.2-5.6 amps and runs as advertised for 5 hours or as long as you have sun to kick up the batteries. Cooling is perfect.

Plugged into shore or on genny (120VAC) the unit will not maintain temps at all. Put it on 5 and it goes down to -1F and 34F for a few hours, defrosts and never cools again. Put on 3 or 4 it will never actually get the freezer into freezing temps or < 32F and the refrigerator section will vary from 41-47F or so. I have been testing the unit for some time, over a week, in the drive, no food lost because it is not suitable for food storage at this time.

I won't repeat details but don't expect a Norcold dealer to help or Norcold. WGO is nice but so far ignoring my pleas except take it to a WGO dealer. Will do in two days. Please post your experience with this refrigerator. Thanks!

luvlabs · 02-24-2018, 08:09 AM

As you are discovering, the warranty process with Winnebago is a bit different than with Tiffin. You have to start the process by taking it to a Winnebago dealer. No use of mobile mechanics, shipping you the part(s), or other things you are used to with Tiffin. If your closest dealer is Camping World, then you will have to go even though you would wouldn't go there for any other reason.

These fridges are dual 120V/12V with separate power supplies. It sounds like your 120V operation could be anything from a tripped breaker, to a bad or miswired outlet, to an actual failed power supply. If you can find the outlet where it is wired into you could at least start your troubleshooting.

A call to Winnebago Service wouldn't hurt either. Their phones people are really helpful and can give you some insight into what might have failed and where to look. They are also real good about following up on dealers who aren't quite truthful with you. Have your VIN handy.

Wayneey · 02-25-2018, 06:59 PM

As I'll be taking ownership of a 2018 Navion 24J in about 6 weeks, with the Norcold DE-0061 refrigerator, I've been following this thread with interest.

Attached is the schematic of the refrigerator from the Owner's Manual. According to the Owner's Manual, "If both AC and DC power sources are connected to the refrigerator it operates on AC voltage. If AC power becomes unavailable, such as such as when you disconnect shoreline power, the refrigerator operates on DC power."

From the schematic, it's probably a safe bet to say the Power Module (component 257) also converts the 120V AC input to 12 (or maybe 24?) VDC.

It would seem to follow if the refrigerator works fine on DC input with shore power disconnected and unacceptably erratic on AC input, there’s a problem with the power module. Whether that's because the power module is bad or perhaps due to an inherent design flaw remains to be seen. Maybe the conversion circuitry in the Power Module outputs a voltage signature such that the compressor performs differently on how it does from straight DC power input with no 120 VAC present. And, of course, there could be a totally different explanation as to what's going on, like maybe the 120 VAC ground connection is intermittent or an open circuit which creates an issue.

Either way, Winnebago and/or Norcold need to resolve the issue.

All this said, if someone has this refrigerator and can document consistent ~ 37° F - 40° F refrigerator and ~0° F freezer temps, let's hear from you ...

Wayne

nothermark · 02-25-2018, 07:14 PM

FWIW - have you simulated food with some jugged water? I agree that it is acting strangely. What I wonder is if the controller is getting confused because it is not acting within parameters it is designed for. That is possible given the tendency of current designers to substitute software and a controller for a snap switch and relay. Who knows what the magic box looks at...

kayak70 · 02-26-2018, 05:25 AM

Food storage is emulated, gallon jugs of water in refer, water container in freezer.

I am the fourth known owner with issues with this fridge. One is exchanging updates with me by email and our results are almost identical. I hope he can stop by and post his results as well.

FWIW, I am a retired electrical engineer although my real work the last 14 years was network design for a very large Power industry. With that thought in mind I agree with the post about the "controller". My thought is simple, if the unit converts 120VAC into 12VDC when on shore power - why? My goodness what sense at all does that make in design? We have batteries and a converter and solar...

Yes, I have the diagram and all the manuals I can find. I just hope other owners with experience can find this and post their results.

My testing on solar was over two or three sunny days and probably not enough to state emphatically "it works on 12VDC perfectly" although it did for me. If that is the answer why not unplug it from AC....

So far what I know from my testing and several others reports is the unit is very erratic. Sometimes it cools down on 4, then the compressor turns off and it does not come back on for 24 hours or more with obviously hot temps in freezer and refer section. Mine did that also. There is also a report that the unit lost temps while being driven with genset off which means 12VDC operation.

SeeTheUSA · 02-26-2018, 02:27 PM

We are the “other” Bill referred to. Two weeks “live testing” with real food, much of which had to be tossed once we returned home. Most painful for me was the loss of some really gOOd tamales we bought in RGV (Rio Grande Valley). Returned home just yesterday.

The Norcold either ran continuously, freezing everything in the freezer and the food compartment (readings were in the range of 0F in the freezer, 30F in the food compartment) ... then we would notice the issue and turn down the control setting and it would fail to restart properly and over a day or two everything would thaw out (readings were about 35-40F in the freezer and over 50F in the food compartment). Cycled like this several times over the two weeks. Never did operate properly. Most of the time was with a 110v source, but even on the road for about four days didn’t result in what one would consider normal operation.

We were in the RGV for enjoyment, so weren’t glued to the Norcold for testing and it would often take a while for us to notice things. Once we became aware something was wrong, we paid close attention for changing temps, possible restarts, etc.

Today I called WGO to let them know of the problem and told them I’m not interested in shagging the rig over to an RV dealer ... not sure how they’d even evaluate if there is a problem unless we leave the rig with them for weeks and weeks and weeks (like we have experienced before). Was told I could instead talk to Norcold directly, which I did. They offered contacts for authorized warranty folks near me, which I am currently working on to see if that’s a better route.

So for now, no resolution. Only concern

Will be interested in any other experiences, resolutions, ideas.

lrcasella · 02-26-2018, 04:17 PM

Why not just unplug the AC plug? It will then operate on DC feed all the time. If can't find the plug (on earlier models it was in the back vent), then just turn off the breaker for the refrigerator. I looked at the Winnebago AC wiring Diagram and 110 Load Center and Transfer Switch drawings and I don't see any breaker or receptacle or AC wiring to the refrigerator. I know what the manuals say, but is it possible there is no AC feed?

kayak70 · 02-26-2018, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrcasella

Why not just unplug the AC plug? It will then operate on DC feed all the time. If can't find the plug (on earlier models it was in the back vent), then just turn off the breaker for the refrigerator. I looked at the Winnebago AC wiring Diagram and 110 Load Center and Transfer Switch drawings and I don't see any breaker or receptacle or AC wiring to the refrigerator. I know what the manuals say, but is it possible there is no AC feed?

I have looked at the wiring diagram downloaded from WGO as well. I also got a call from a trusted service tech at a far away dealership who verified that WGO does not use the AC at all. It is indeed operating on the 12VDC side only. If there is a difference while on shore it could imply dirty AC floating on the 12VDC converted voltage from the charger. That tech also said they have had "some" thermostat issues.

When I spoke to Norcold they gave me the name of their "star" dealer about 35-40 miles away. Called them and they told me several things to try. I did, it did not help, same failure to cool. Called back and they said, really a quote, "this is not our problem, we did not sell it..take it back to your dealer". WGO was not pleased to hear that but I told em. Dealer appt tomorrow AM and I'll call Norcold back after I drop the rig off. I'm not particularly happy about it but that's life in the RV lane frequently...stuff happens and we have to deal with it. I found one Norcold expert, great rep, but WGO said dealer only for warranty.

SeeTheUSA · 02-26-2018, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kayak70

.... I also got a call from a trusted service tech at a far away dealership who verified that WGO does not use the AC at all. ....

Well, that would change things a bit! It would sink the whole 12v/110v problem theory.

Mooneypaul · 02-26-2018, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeeTheUSA

Well, that would change things a bit! It would sink the whole 12v/110v problem theory.

Just following

kayak70 · 02-27-2018, 05:08 PM

Just an update to keep the thread moving. My rig is at the dealer now in a bay. They hooked it up this AM, set it on 5, called and told me it is "working". I said leave it plugged in and call Norcold. they left it plugged in and it will be overnight but no Norcold call yet. I stopped by at 5PM and said Let's do a temp check. It was 27 in freezer and 31 in refer. He said, see it is cooling, I said yep, it is unusable. Let's see what it is in the AM. That is pretty much in line for a power up at setting 5. By tomorrow AM it should be above freezing in both compartments. Nice for the refer bad for the freezer.

SeeTheUSA · 02-27-2018, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kayak70

Just an update to keep the thread moving. My rig is at the dealer now in a bay. They hooked it up this AM, set it on 5, called and told me it is "working". I said leave it plugged in and call Norcold. they left it plugged in and it will be overnight but no Norcold call yet. I stopped by at 5PM and said Let's do a temp check. It was 27 in freezer and 31 in refer. He said, see it is cooling, I said yep, it is unusable. Let's see what it is in the AM. That is pretty much in line for a power up at setting 5. By tomorrow AM it should be above freezing in both compartments. Nice for the refer bad for the freezer.

Good to know, Bill. I’m essentially on hold until a nearby Norcold-authorized service establishment has shop space to evaluate my reefer. Was told that might be a week or two.

I’ll be anxious to hear how you do with yours. Sure hoping your dealer does something more than conclude all is well just because it’s cool. This issue is a moving target and it would be good for Norcold to get involved .... simply need a performance test over some time period. Did you or your dealer load up the two compartments with something to simulate maybe a frozen turkey up above and some veggies down below?

What we are experiencing just isn’t normal or acceptable. Sure hoping for a reasonable solution.

kayak70 · 02-27-2018, 06:18 PM

The dealer had both compartments empty. At home I put a large bowl of water, covered, in the freezer and a gallon jug in the refer for my testing. I'll be back in touch with WGO and ask for a Norcold shop if this visit is fruitless. Honestly, even though folks speak bad about them, this CW is a great shop with a great service manager. They are just like everyone else, overworked and under-appreciated and too busy to get a drink of water and process it. I'm going to be very fair with them because right now - they have my rig in their hands and I think they will do the right thing.

GB007 · 02-27-2018, 06:39 PM

Following. We pick up our D in April and we are traveling to Lichtsinn's in Iowa to pick it up. Anyone have any suggestions on testing the fridge during the walk thru or later in the same day? Seems like more time may be needed to really test it. I would hate to leave the dealer on my way home and discover there is an issue that we couldn't reveal while we were at the dealer.