RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Newmar Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-06-2012, 06:14 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Daisy, OK
Posts: 21
2001 Dutch Star - won't start

MH needed jump start on old batts, but ran OK. 2 new AGM start batteries replaced the nearly dead wet batts. Now 330 hp Cat won't start. Generator won't start. Elec. seats & mirrors won't move. Dash warning lights OK. All ignition fuses checked OK. Slide out works OK. Elec horn OK. All 6 batts charge on shore power. Some dash instrument problems = possible VDC problem? Other clues. Need help. Ron
__________________

RSKPILGRIM is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-06-2012, 08:31 PM   #2
Community Moderator
 
"007"'s Avatar


 
Nor'easters Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 29,854
Welcome Ron to the forum and irv2.
Are the new batteries AGM's for the house 12V system?
What happens when you start the Gen everything work OK?
How about all your ground cables off batteries both chassis and house, gen, converter/inverter all good clean tight connections?
In QT's 1 & 2 pictures of battery cable wiring.
Here is maybe a thread of your problem.
Bird system problems.

MAKE SURE YOU READ ALL LINKS WITHIN THE DIFFERENT THREADS
__________________

__________________
98KSCA, 99MACA, 03 KSCA-3740- 8.1 Chev-- ALLISON Trans
VISIT the NEWMAR QUICK TIPS & EASYMODS 1 & 2
QUICK TIPS # 3
RV SYSTEMS & APPLIANCES & RECALLS --- TECH INFORMATION
"007" is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 04:47 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
palehorse89's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,824
Hello, something happened with the wiring when changing the batteries. Look and make sure all the wires are back in place and are in the right spots.
__________________
2000 Newmar MADP 4060, 350ISC, Spartan MM, IFS 2011 Jeep JK, M&G Braking, 2014 MTI 27' Hog Hauler, Wireless brake control, 2006Ultra & 1989 Springer
palehorse89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 07:57 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
GaryKD's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wellington, Florida
Posts: 13,445
Hi RSKPILGRIM,
Welcome to iRV2 and the Newmar Owners Forum. There could be several possibilities. Before making suggestions can you tell us what happens when you try to start the CAT or the generator?
1. Nothing
2. Tries to start but will not start
3. When you press the "battery boost" switch during the starting process, does that change the symptoms?
4. Are the new batteries at full charge?

AGM technology batteries are usually for the coach, not the chassis. They provide quite a bit of power over long periods of time. They are not noted for providing the surge of power needed to start engines.
__________________
Gary
2005 Newmar KSDP 3910 + GMC ENVOY XUV 37K lbs Moving Down The Road
The Avatar Is Many Times Around The USA
Nobody Knows Your Coach Like Somebody Who Owns One Just Like Yours
GaryKD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 10:21 AM   #5
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Daisy, OK
Posts: 21
FOR 007: 4 6v house batts are wet cell GC2's; voltage averages 6.1 in each; house system seems normal, i.e. interior lights water pump, slide-out-all norm operation, dash warning/system lights boot up properly with ignition key use. Generac will not start. Battery cable connections all tested with VOM for good current flow. Never had a problem with ground connect at other end. All batts connected according to forum diagram = 12.6 v output for starting. I thought BIRD system was a possible problem only for house batt sys, not for starting power. Yes/No?

FOR PALEHORSE89: House battery system seems to be operating OK; one pos & one neg cable connected with normal 12 v lighting in coach. Only start sys a problem, so I assume to disregard house sys and batts to resolve the no start problem. START SYS: Red taped cable ends attached to pos side of AGM batts; non-color coded cables to the neg side. When in doubt, I tried some switching, but never was able to start either the Cat or the Generac. I believe the start cables are properly installed on the batteries. The problem is somewhere else.
FOR GaryKD: When trying to start the generator, nothing happens. When trying to start the Cat after turning the key clockwise one click, there is a familiar "beep" followed by all of the dash sys/warn lights illuminating as per normal. (Of course the batt isol switch must be "on.") Further rotating the key for ignition produces only a "thud" sound. The same sound is heard when turning the key one click counter-clockwise. There is no attempt by the system to start either unit, such as might happen with a dying battery or faulty ground connection. Pressing the battery boost switch has no effect. New batteries are charged at 12.6+. All 6 batts charge up on shore power. Is not the inoperability of the electric seats a big clue to the source of the problem?

I am unfamiliar with navigating around the forums, so forgive me for combining all replies to you 3 gentlemen. I sincerely thank you. My MH is in an isolated mountain area and cannot be driven to a repair shop. Literally, I need help to get her started.
Thanks again, Ron
RSKPILGRIM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 03:37 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
palehorse89's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,824
This is a hard one to think out and not be able to work on, to start try and have someone turn the key while you locate where the "thud" is coming from. Maybe it is a solonoid that isn't working right is all I can think of a this point. Find out where that sound is coming from and then test for voltage there, cause what ever that sound is is where the 12 vdc is stoping I think.
__________________
2000 Newmar MADP 4060, 350ISC, Spartan MM, IFS 2011 Jeep JK, M&G Braking, 2014 MTI 27' Hog Hauler, Wireless brake control, 2006Ultra & 1989 Springer
palehorse89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 04:06 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Air Baron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 603
I could not start my 2001 MADP after bringing it home last year. Turning the key produced no cranking. After calling the Cummins tech, he crawled under the engine and began wiggling wires while I held the ignition key in the start position. Corroded connection on the starter solenoid.

But a generator not starting also?

I called Spartan and they emailed me a pdf file for all the chassis wiring diagrams. You need to see all the connections and solenoids in the start systems, then locate them.
Air Baron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 04:14 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
JBDISCOVERY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 573
I agree with the post from PALEHOUSE. Trace the positive cables from the engine batteries to the ENGINE START SOLENOID. You should be able to hear the solenoid click over when the ignition key is turned full over. If not, the solenoid is bad, or the contacts for energizing the START SOLENOID are bad. I had to replace our start solenoid when it failed. If you have positive voltage after the engaged solenoid, then check the starter motor. At the same time, trace the grounds from the engine batteries to insure they have full contact. I personally have had trouble with corroded connections from the alternator, so check carefully. If you follow the starter circuit you should be able to get the motor to turn over.
Regards,
JimB
JBDISCOVERY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 04:20 PM   #9
Registered User
 
Iron Man's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,063
If gen and engine won't start and you could start with boost button you either missed a connection hooking the system back up or the new batteries are bad or low on charge. You are getting SOME power from the batteries because when you turn the key you are getting power to the dash. Since you changed batteries I would double check all your connections for being tight and correct. Sometimes a new battery is low on a charge or bad. Friend had a KS that we replaces his house batteries and we could not get the generator to start (his gen started of the house batteries) we ran the rig engine for 30 minutes and the generator fired up. I would put the new batteries on a charge (event though they show 12.6 volts) or have a load test done on them.
__________________
John, Pam, Nicholas, Aria
NKK 16073L
2007 Essex 4502
2015 GMC Seirra
Iron Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 07:15 PM   #10
Community Moderator
 
"007"'s Avatar


 
Nor'easters Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 29,854
The BIRD System charges all batteries if shore line plugged in first the house batteries and when they are fully charged than your coach starting batteries.
Will work in opposite direction when driving with engine alternator charge.
As Gary said AGM's usually for house batteries. Were they fully charged before installing.
Battery ground cables to chassis frame still should be check for good tight connections and clean if not good your batteries will not charged.
Maybe you need to look for a Mobile RV Repairman.
__________________
98KSCA, 99MACA, 03 KSCA-3740- 8.1 Chev-- ALLISON Trans
VISIT the NEWMAR QUICK TIPS & EASYMODS 1 & 2
QUICK TIPS # 3
RV SYSTEMS & APPLIANCES & RECALLS --- TECH INFORMATION
"007" is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 07:31 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
GaryKD's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wellington, Florida
Posts: 13,445
I agree with those who have suggested to:
1. double check the connections
2. trace the voltage from the positive battery terminal to the starter motor
__________________
Gary
2005 Newmar KSDP 3910 + GMC ENVOY XUV 37K lbs Moving Down The Road
The Avatar Is Many Times Around The USA
Nobody Knows Your Coach Like Somebody Who Owns One Just Like Yours
GaryKD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 08:02 PM   #12
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Daisy, OK
Posts: 21
Gary, The "thud" sound heard in the cockpit was of a higher pitch when I opened up the front of the MH, while my wife turned the ign key. It was a coil shaped relay device. The heavier red wire (marked Battery pwr, but not connected to the coil) darried a full 12.56 v charge. Later I crawled under the Cat, cleaned a medium amount of corrosion from the cable and wires on the pos lug of the start solenoid, and tried to start the Cat: nothin'! Checked the voltage there at full 12.56 which dropped to erratic zero+ when wife turned key to start. There was no clunk noise from the solenoid!!! What are the odds of the solenoid malfunction at the very same time the new AGM start batteries were added? (The 4 6v house batts remain GC2 acid.)

The more perplexing fact to me is that some of the electric devices in the coach work and some do not. Can a dead starter solenoid cause this condition? I should expect not. The voltage of all DC circuits and fuses in the panel over the bed test good (12.5 v). All circuit breakers in that panel are set; however, occasionally the converter cb needs resetting. So where is the device that has opened the circuit to both front seat controls, defroster fan, mirror adjust control, generator start control, made front step cover inop, and cigar lighters inop?
RSKPILGRIM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 08:18 PM   #13
Registered User
 
Iron Man's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSKPILGRIM View Post
Gary, The "thud" sound heard in the cockpit was of a higher pitch when I opened up the front of the MH, while my wife turned the ign key. It was a coil shaped relay device. The heavier red wire (marked Battery pwr, but not connected to the coil) darried a full 12.56 v charge. Later I crawled under the Cat, cleaned a medium amount of corrosion from the cable and wires on the pos lug of the start solenoid, and tried to start the Cat: nothin'! Checked the voltage there at full 12.56 which dropped to erratic zero+ when wife turned key to start. There was no clunk noise from the solenoid!!! What are the odds of the solenoid malfunction at the very same time the new AGM start batteries were added? (The 4 6v house batts remain gc2 acid.)

The more perplexing fact to me is that some of the electric devices in the coach work and some do not. Can a dead starter solenoid cause this condition? I should expect not. The voltage of all DC circuits and fuses in the panel over the bed test good (12.5 v). All circuit breakers in that panel are set; however, occasionally the converter cb needs resetting. So where is the device that has opened the circuit to both front seat controls, defroster fan, mirror adjust control, generator start control, made front step cover inop, and cigar lighters inop?

If the voltage dropped to zero you are having battery issues. Have them load tested. Most all things you described need 12 volts but little amperage that is why they are working. Try turning on the headlights and starting the generator and if it does not try to start and the headlights go dim this just reinforces the argument of bad batteries. What are the chances of 2 starter solenoid going bad at the same time you replace the batteries.
__________________
John, Pam, Nicholas, Aria
NKK 16073L
2007 Essex 4502
2015 GMC Seirra
Iron Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 08:25 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
ARTWERKE's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
Posts: 472
12.6 V at pos. terminal of solenoid dropping to erratic zero when key is turned sounds like a poor/intermitant connection to the battery. A poor ground connection would still read 12 V.Check voltage at battery while turning key, zero volts there would indicate battery problem, 12V would indicate poor hot connection.
__________________

ARTWERKE is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×