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Old 06-07-2017, 12:37 PM   #1
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2002 MADP engine brake wiring

After returning from our trip out west I am convinced the engine brake is not working. It does downshift the engine but the engine portion does nothing. I get the exact same effect by manually downshifting. Switch on or off makes no difference.
This is the thread I start d when first trying to locate fuses or relays.
Engine brake fuse location

I have been looking at wiring diagrams and tracing some of the wires. Fuses and relays are mentioned in the diagram and one wire on switch is labeled "Jake relay". I have not been able to locate any relay or fuses directly related to the engine brake. Looked in 3 areas, from under hood, under dash and the rear compartment on passenger side.
Anyone have any ideas on where a relay or fuses might be located for the engine brake?
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Old 06-07-2017, 01:24 PM   #2
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The answer to this would interest me, as well.
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Old 06-07-2017, 02:21 PM   #3
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Do you have an Engine Brake(jake brake) or an Exhaust Brake. They are very different.
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Old 06-07-2017, 03:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spk64 View Post
After returning from our trip out west I am convinced the engine brake is not working. It does downshift the engine but the engine portion does nothing. I get the exact same effect by manually downshifting. Switch on or off makes no difference.
This is the thread I start d when first trying to locate fuses or relays.
Engine brake fuse location

I have been looking at wiring diagrams and tracing some of the wires. Fuses and relays are mentioned in the diagram and one wire on switch is labeled "Jake relay". I have not been able to locate any relay or fuses directly related to the engine brake. Looked in 3 areas, from under hood, under dash and the rear compartment on passenger side.
Anyone have any ideas on where a relay or fuses might be located for the engine brake?
I don't think you have an "exhaust brake." What you have is an electronic transmission brake. If you let your speed build up, to where you need it now, and then engage the brake, you will probably not slow down. You will need to apply the coach brakes and get the speed down and then let it take over. I have manually downshifted, with the brake engaged, and it does help, but, remember, you are moving a lot of weight down the road.
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Old 06-07-2017, 07:07 PM   #5
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This is interesting, didn't know they made such a thing for RVs. I was betting that he had an exhaust brake too. Exhaust Brake operation - When the switch is on and you let your foot off the gas totally, while moving, you should see the transmission change on the display on the left to 2 or 4 and then the transmission starts downshifting, which should bring your speed down. Put your foot back on the gas and you should see the transmission go to 6 on the left of the display.
Look under your bed - do you see something like this exhaust brake (small air cylinder) on the exhaust pipe?
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Old 06-07-2017, 07:53 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Deucenut View Post
Do you have an Engine Brake(jake brake) or an Exhaust Brake. They are very different.


Definitely engine brake
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Old 06-07-2017, 07:54 PM   #7
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2002 MADP engine brake wiring

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJOL View Post
I don't think you have an "exhaust brake." What you have is an electronic transmission brake. If you let your speed build up, to where you need it now, and then engage the brake, you will probably not slow down. You will need to apply the coach brakes and get the speed down and then let it take over. I have manually downshifted, with the brake engaged, and it does help, but, remember, you are moving a lot of weight down the road.


Nope, I definitely have an engine brake. Confirmed with Cummins and can easily be seen and verified with the extra wiring harness and the added extension under the valve cover.
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Old 06-07-2017, 07:59 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by RJOL View Post
I don't think you have an "exhaust brake." What you have is an electronic transmission brake. If you let your speed build up, to where you need it now, and then engage the brake, you will probably not slow down. You will need to apply the coach brakes and get the speed down and then let it take over. I have manually downshifted, with the brake engaged, and it does help, but, remember, you are moving a lot of weight down the road.
Nope, the only manufacturer that regularly used the transmission retarder is Foretravel.

Both our '00 and '02 DSDP's had exhaust brakes.
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:03 PM   #9
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2002 MADP engine brake wiring

Guys I do not have an exhaust brake. It is an engine brake. I confirmed this 3 years ago with calls and checking out what I have.
Exhaust or Engine brake

Now what I am trying to do is track down where a relay or fuse may be located that is in the wiring diagrams. I have called Spartan but they are looking at the same diagram I have but does not match exactly what I am seeing on our Chassis.

Thanks,
Steve
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:21 PM   #10
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Nope, the only manufacturer that regularly used the transmission retarder is Foretravel.

Both our '00 and '02 DSDP's had exhaust brakes.

I'll yield to your knowledge base. I've only owned this coach for 1 year and it does not act like any exhaust brake I've ever had on my 1 ton tow vehicles. Maybe it's because of the coach weight, but if I'm going down a hill and I hit around 65mph, and I engage the brake control, it feels like nothing has happened until I apply coach brakes and get the speed down. Need to do a little more study on this issue... Thanks for the info...
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:53 PM   #11
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I'll yield to your knowledge base. I've only owned this coach for 1 year and it does not act like any exhaust brake I've ever had on my 1 ton tow vehicles. Maybe it's because of the coach weight, but if I'm going down a hill and I hit around 65mph, and I engage the brake control, it feels like nothing has happened until I apply coach brakes and get the speed down. Need to do a little more study on this issue... Thanks for the info...

At 65 mph I doubt the brake would engage because the transmission has to drop into 4th gear which at 65 would probably overspeed the engine, in which case the ECM won't allow it to happen. Just MHO.
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Old 06-07-2017, 11:04 PM   #12
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I'll yield to your knowledge base. I've only owned this coach for 1 year and it does not act like any exhaust brake I've ever had on my 1 ton tow vehicles. Maybe it's because of the coach weight, but if I'm going down a hill and I hit around 65mph, and I engage the brake control, it feels like nothing has happened until I apply coach brakes and get the speed down. Need to do a little more study on this issue... Thanks for the info...
The Exhaust Brake on your DSDP does virtually nothing until your speed drops under 50 MPH. When you have the brake switched on, you will see it select 2nd gear when you take your foot off the throttle. However, it will only downshift to a lower gear based on road speed to prevent engine overspeed.
Once you get below 50 it will begin to downshift and as you apply the service brake it will continue to downshift as speed reduces.

So, when starting a decent down a steep grade, say 8 or 10 percent, you should select a lower gear at the top (typically the same as the one you made the climb with. Then you will find your speed will gradually increase and the transmission will want to upshift. At this point, you can apply the service brake to reduce speed and the transmission will downshift again.
The exhaust brake is merely an assist.
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Old 06-07-2017, 11:05 PM   #13
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I'll yield to your knowledge base. I've only owned this coach for 1 year and it does not act like any exhaust brake I've ever had on my 1 ton tow vehicles. Maybe it's because of the coach weight, but if I'm going down a hill and I hit around 65mph, and I engage the brake control, it feels like nothing has happened until I apply coach brakes and get the speed down. Need to do a little more study on this issue... Thanks for the info...
At 65 mph ,an exhaust brake in a, 30,000 lb. coach will have little effect , you have to set a control speed at the top of the hill , I like to crest the summit at 45 ; remember it's much easier to speed up than to slow down ; when I switch the exhaust brake on the shift indicator will show; 2 ; for second gear but to keep from over revving the engine the transmission will only downshift to forth gear , I''ll be going downhill with engine RPM just over 2,000 and allow the coach to gain speed till RPM reaches 2,500 , then apply the service brakes to drop RPM back to 2,000. If the RPM drops below 2,000 the trans will gear down to third , and RPM will be in the 2,500 RPM range again, but the coach will be going slower because of the lower gear . At 2,750 RPM the transmission will up shift to protect the engine from over revving , and exhaust brake efficiency will drop off at the lower engine RPM.
These RPMs are for the way my Cat engine with exhaust brake operates and your coach with a ISC will have different RPM parameters .
But for me 50 mph ,trans in forth with the exhaust brake on , provides the best speed control on downhills.

EDIT: I see Dennis and I were typing at the same time , sorry for the duplication.
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Old 06-07-2017, 11:12 PM   #14
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At 65 mph ,an exhaust brake in a, 30,000 lb. coach will have little effect , you have to set a control speed at the top of the hill , I like to crest the summit at 45 ; remember it's much easier to speed up than to slow down ; when I switch the exhaust brake on the shift indicator will show; 2 ; for second gear but to keep from over revving the engine the transmission will only downshift to forth gear , I''ll be going downhill with engine RPM just over 2,000 and allow the coach to gain speed till RPM reaches 2,500 , then apply the service brakes to drop RPM back to 2,000. If the RPM drops below 2,000 the trans will gear down to third , and RPM will be in the 2,500 RPM range again, but the coach will be going slower because of the lower gear . At 2,750 RPM the transmission will up shift to protect the engine from over revving , and exhaust brake efficiency will drop off at the lower engine RPM.
These RPMs are for the way my Cat engine with exhaust brake operates and your coach with a ISC will have different RPM parameters .
But for me 50 mph ,trans in forth with the exhaust brake on , provides the best speed control on downhills.
Mine reacts pretty much the same. I pick my gear at the top of the grade based on what I used on the assent. Usually 4th or even 3rd (like today coming down the 18% knoll on the Pacific Hwy East of Tofino. . If you haven't driven that track, you haven't lived. My copilot still hasn't gotten the colour back in her knuckles.
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