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Old 10-01-2015, 05:36 PM   #1
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2016 43' DSDP Weight Issues?

So...who wants to volunteer their UVW, CCC & corner weights? In particular I am most interested in the DSDP 4369. Also, if you do have that info, are you loaded like a full timer might be?

Here is why I ask:

After ruling out the Ventana...sorry, nothing personal VTDP owners...we have had a chance to get inside of a few 2016 DSDP 4396 coaches. First, the floor plan (started in 2014) is the one that we think meets our needs and wants. Of course, we aren't the only ones that think that way based on sales of that model.

We are considering other options from a used 2014/2015 (when they become available) to a new 2015 and even ordering a 2016 or 2017. Ordering one would probably put us into 2017 models with the option to snap up a new 2016 later in the year.

So...2016 brings in the HWH slide and tile in the slide, the passive tag, cross braces, MA stairs and some other nice upgrades to 2015. HOWEVER...the weight penalty is pretty significant.

All 3 coaches we have seen had a CCC of less than 4000#. That is over a 3000# drop from 2015. Stock NCC weights for 2015 vs 2016 are 8800# & 5600# respectively.

While I don't think we would toss in more than 3000# of stuff into the coach, my main concern is the tire loads on the steerer axle. Another issue would be overall weight and the affect it would have on fuel mileage and mountain performance.
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Old 10-01-2015, 07:51 PM   #2
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Is there a Mountain Aire floorplan that appeals to you?

The numbers seem a bit better on paper.



Just thought I would throw that out there.
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Old 10-01-2015, 08:34 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Hunter View Post
Is there a Mountain Aire floorplan that appeals to you?

The numbers seem a bit better on paper.



Just thought I would throw that out there.
We looked at that but the MADPs in our price range are either older than we want or have things we won't accept like RV refers and pleated day/night shades. We spent a lot of money upgrading our current coach and want to keep those kinds of features in our next coach. What we can't upgrade is the heating system, number of ACs and shower size to name a few.

We also don't want to go over 43' so newer MADPs are longer but we haven't totally ruled them out either. You would be amazed at then number of older MADPs with RV refers still.

Thanks for tossing that out there.
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Old 10-01-2015, 09:22 PM   #4
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Don,

Here are mine as they were recorded last week right next to you.

2015 DSDP 4369 All electric with eight batteries in left front bay and over 3/4 fuel, full water tank 1/2 Black and empty Gray. Full timers since January.

Left side Right side Total GAWR

Frt Axle 8,060 7,220 15,280 17,000

Drive Axle 8,080 8,780 16,860 20,000

Tag Axle 3,620 3,580 7,200 10,000

39,340

GVWR 44,600

If I remember I will call Newmar and get my weight numbers that are available for each unit as it left the factory next week and then send them to you as well.

Hope this helps.
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Old 10-01-2015, 09:30 PM   #5
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Vinny's numbers seem great on his 4369!


For whatever it worth look on the website below.

Great dealership and often has leftover stock from previous model years.

Whichever way you decide to go DS or MA, 30 cents on the dollar makes it worth the drive!



Acheter un véhicule récréatif | VR St-Cyr | VR St-Cyr
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Old 10-01-2015, 09:32 PM   #6
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Be CAREFUL of that NCC figure!! When we ordered our '02 DSDP 4090 it had an advertised NCC of 5,300#'s so I wasn't worried about having enough CCC.
Didn't order the washer/dryer, the tile floor, etc. Had them delete two walls and two pocket doors.
When it was delivered we had 663#'s of CCC and ALL of that was on the rear axle as the front was overweight with nothing loaded and without us aboard.
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Old 10-02-2015, 05:59 AM   #7
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Skyboss, you are right to be concerned about weights. Mr D's story may well be repeated in the coming months. You know, you can contact Newmar to get "as built" weight. I did and was terrified. Newmar may be more aware of the situation now, but at one time they did let coaches out with little or no weight to spare.
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Old 10-02-2015, 08:52 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VP Chianese View Post
Don,

Here are mine as they were recorded last week right next to you.

2015 DSDP 4369 All electric with eight batteries...

Hope this helps.
HELLO VINNEY!

It was great to meet you and the numbers help a great deal. To be honest, I don't think the 2015 weights will ever be an issue.

The 2016...well they could be interesting.

If you get those corner weights off the production line, it could be an interesting comparison of pre versus post loading.

TANX!
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Old 10-02-2015, 09:03 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbbg II View Post
Skyboss, you are right to be concerned about weights. Mr D's story may well be repeated in the coming months. You know, you can contact Newmar to get "as built" weight. ...
According to some information I have heard from some Newmar folks we SHOULD be able to get corner weights off the production line but one dealer said they had a problem getting those numbers.
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Old 10-02-2015, 09:49 AM   #10
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Trying to get the same info on the Anthem

Don,

We meet a few months back at Entegra on the plant tour. You are bring up something that I have never considered with the weight discussion.

I am following your post closely as we are looking at the DS 4369. Since Entegra is on our list in second place I tried going to the Entegra site to get the NCC or ECC as a comparison and they don't list it in the Brochure for the 44B and I am not sure how to calculate it from the info they have documented.I will probably do the same with the American Coach Allegiance as well since it is third on our list.

Thanks for bringing this up, Newmar has done some great things in 2016 and they really appeal to us. Just hope STAR doesn't turn into Strong, True and Really Overweight.

Regards

Jim




Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky_Boss View Post
So...who wants to volunteer their UVW, CCC & corner weights? In particular I am most interested in the DSDP 4369. Also, if you do have that info, are you loaded like a full timer might be?

Here is why I ask:

After ruling out the Ventana...sorry, nothing personal VTDP owners...we have had a chance to get inside of a few 2016 DSDP 4396 coaches. First, the floor plan (started in 2014) is the one that we think meets our needs and wants. Of course, we aren't the only ones that think that way based on sales of that model.

We are considering other options from a used 2014/2015 (when they become available) to a new 2015 and even ordering a 2016 or 2017. Ordering one would probably put us into 2017 models with the option to snap up a new 2016 later in the year.

So...2016 brings in the HWH slide and tile in the slide, the passive tag, cross braces, MA stairs and some other nice upgrades to 2015. HOWEVER...the weight penalty is pretty significant.

All 3 coaches we have seen had a CCC of less than 4000#. That is over a 3000# drop from 2015. Stock NCC weights for 2015 vs 2016 are 8800# & 5600# respectively.

While I don't think we would toss in more than 3000# of stuff into the coach, my main concern is the tire loads on the steerer axle. Another issue would be overall weight and the affect it would have on fuel mileage and mountain performance.
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Old 10-02-2015, 10:37 AM   #11
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Quote:
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Don,

We meet a few months back at Entegra on the plant tour. You are bring up something that I have never considered with the weight discussion. ...

Jim
Hello Jim!

I don't want to stray too far of the specific issue on the 2016 DSDP 4369. But I'm anal about weight and balance.

I did notice, at least in EC 2015 Anthems, that you could add up the axle weight ratings (AWR) and get the 49,000# GVWR with the Spartan chassis. OTOH, with the DSDPs you can't do that. The DSDPs on FL chassis AWRs total 47,000# but the GVWR is 44,600#.

All that is nice and we could cuss and discuss the reasons. Still...when it comes down to it, the front AWR for both is 17,000#. After seeing how EC builds their coaches I have to think they were heavy compared to the 4 slide DSDPs and I have heard some minor whispering about EC CCC but I don't personally know if it was/is really a big problem. I don't really want to go there beyond that.

What I am seeing is that high line production coaches are being packed with more and more features, the chassis aren't being beefed up in a commensurate approach until you get into the Cornerstone & MADP (and above) levels were you get a 20,000# front AWR. The natural tendency is to pass these high line features down to the mid line models with lower GVWR.

ANYWAY...

I'm starting to think that I will be waiting for a used, well equipped 2014 or 2015 DSDP 4369 to become available. However...I will keep an eye open for a 43' MADP.

BTW...at least with the 2015 DSDPs someone was told the brochures had a major misprint on GVWR and they thought they could add up all the AWRs. We looked at his tire pressure and axle weight placard along with the weight sticker and they agreed with the brochure GVWR of 44,600#.
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Old 10-02-2015, 10:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky_Boss View Post
According to some information I have heard from some Newmar folks we SHOULD be able to get corner weights off the production line but one dealer said they had a problem getting those numbers.
No problem got mine this morning. But to be clear the first numbers were just the total build and Gross so I pushed for the others and they got them for me within five minutes by email.

The Gross Vehicle Weight Rating is: 44,600 lbs. (most it can weigh) and the Unloaded Vehicle Weight is: 37,165 lbs. (weight as built). Weight 09.15.2015 39,340 = 2,175 added weight

The UVW is the exact weight for your coach and the following are the others.

Factory weight / Weight loaded 09.18.2015 / Difference

Front Axle : 14,335 / 15,280 / 945
Left Front: 7035 / 8,060 / 1,025
Right Front: 7,300 / 7,220 / <80>

Drive: 15,835 / 16,860 / 1,025
Left: 7820 / 8,080 / 260
Right: 8015 / 8,780 / 765

Tag: 6,995 / 7,200 / 205
Left: 3740 / 3,620 / <120>
Right: 3,255 / 3,580 / 325

Total: 37,165 / 39,340 = 2,175

Very interesting.

Now for my question. As to air pressure. I can figure the single axle front as the Michelin chart shows that this tire at 7,920 is 115 PSI.

But how do we arrive at the dual axle tire pressure? The Michelin chart has two numbers 15,820 and 16,540. The first is at the build weight and the second is lower than the present weight which is 5,260 less than GVWR. So do I just carry 8,200 rating with 125 PSI?
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VP Chianese View Post
...

Now for my question. As to air pressure. I can figure the single axle front as the Michelin chart shows that this tire at 7,920 is 115 PSI.

But how do we arrive at the dual axle tire pressure? The Michelin chart has two numbers 15,820 and 16,540. The first is at the build weight and the second is lower than the present weight which is 5,260 less than GVWR. So do I just carry 8,200 rating with 125 PSI?
A few thoughts:

1. You need to use the highest loaded wheel on each axle to determine the PSI to use in all tires on that axle. From the attached information I get the following:

I'm assuming that your 315s are 9" wheels. Tire pressures rounded UP to the next value based on corner weights NOT axle weights/2:

Left Front: 8,060 - 120 PSI
Right Front: 7,220 - 105 PSI
USE 120 PSI IN BOTH BECAUSE THAT IS THE HIGHEST OF THE 2 HOWEVER...see below on the weight of the right front wheel.

Left Duals: 8,080 - 85 PSI
Right Duals: 8,780 - 85 PSI
USE 85 PSI IN ALL 4 BECAUSE THAT IS THE MINIMUM PSI

Left Tag: 3,620 - 85 PSI
Right Tag: 3,580 - 85 PSI
USE 85 PSI IN BOTH BECAUSE THAT IS THE MINIMUM PSI

I'm betting that the numbers I just tossed at you are pretty darn close to the minimum pressures on your tire pressure placard on the wall, behind the driver's seat.

2. I'm having a hard time figuring out how your LOADED front right wheel can be LESS than UNLOADED from the factory.

3. I have the same question on the lower LOADED weight on the left tag.

NOW...regarding the lower loaded weights it is possible that ride height is off when either/both the factory or your latest weighing was done. Personally, I would have ride height checked as soon as possible when going from a new coach to a fully loaded one.

Making sense?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf RV_Tires_Brochure.pdf (1.58 MB, 34 views)
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Old 10-02-2015, 12:23 PM   #14
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It sounds like the GVWR was never changed when the steer axle went from 14,600# to 17,000#. Perhaps they forgot to change GVWR on the tag!
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