2016 Front Axle Issues, Both DS and Ventana involved

[jmkling]

Not trying to pile on, but I want to make sure any prospective Newmar DP owners know that the axle weight issue is not isolated to just the Dutch Star Line, as can seen below a 2016 Ventana has the same issue and I expect the Ventana 4018 model has it also since the DS 4018 has it, but I don't have any scale weights.

Gets more interesting, looks like both DS 40 and 43 footers could have the issue, Ventana 4369 has the issue and I would say all 40 and 43 footers for 2016 needs to be checked. Easy way is to ask dealer for as built scale weights, check front axle loading % (as built scale weight / rating based by size) if your in the low 90% wise, Lucy, we have a problem. A few checks shows with fuel your at around 95% and two people your at 98%, did not even need to think about water. I did a quick view of a few 2015, and they started with only 86% loading after build and seem to have enough growth margin.

2016 DS4018 13,350/14,600=91%, 700# to fill fuel = 14,050/14,600=96%
2016 DS4369 16,265/17,000=96% (full fuel)
2016 VT4369 12,810/14,000=92%, 490# to fill fuel = 13,300/14,000=95%
......

Some would say this is a trend, I'll let others fill in the blanks.
To those who have pending orders, good luck, it is on you to figure out what you want to do.....

[capoward]

Would definitely be nice to hear the actual axle/tire weights for 2016 Mountain Aire, London Aire, and Essex models just to determine whether the front axle overloading issues relate to all their Star Foundation chassis coaches or just the lower end coaches.

[laurier]

When you add fuel, the tank is at the backwhich support most of the weight. Also when you add 500 lbs, the weight is supported "unevenly" by the 3 axles.
My 2 cents theory.

[twojayhawks]

Originally Posted by laurier

When you add fuel, the tank is at the backwhich support most of the weight. Also when you add 500 lbs, the weight is supported "unevenly" by the 3 axles.
My 2 cents theory.

I was under the impression the fuel tank was just set behind the steer axle.

[Algoma]

You need to go back and check your math. The 43' VT front axle is rated at 14,700 lbs.

[Norm Mac]

I don't know the rating on the 40 foot Ventana but the 43 with the 14,700 pound axle leaves you 1400 pounds after full fuel. I am guessing this should be enough to keep you under weight limits when loaded.

The Dutchstar on the other hand, has only 750 pounds available and creates an estimated overweight condition of 300 to 500 pounds when loaded.

[jmkling]

Originally Posted by Norm Mac

I don't know the rating on the 40 foot Ventana but the 43 with the 14,700 pound axle leaves you 1400 pounds after full fuel. I am guessing this should be enough to keep you under weight limits when loaded.

The Dutchstar on the other hand, has only 750 pounds available and creates an estimated overweight condition of 300 to 500 pounds when loaded.

You are right, with fuel you are at 13,300/14,700=90.5%

Before you get too excited, don't forget to add weight for two people sitting in front of the axle, for me that is about 400 pounds so now you are down to 1000 # of your CCC and add a few hundred pounds in the refer and to me that is not nearly enough to full time, or take two more friends with you and a few changes of clothes. Not for the 200K you are spending. The coach has a large CCC you will never see due to what I think is poor engineering judgement, but you have to make the choice for yourself and how you plan to us it. I am sure some folks don't think they need to have a full fuel tank and are OK with it, that is their choice. The key is making sure they make this decision with full knowledge.

[Algoma]

Originally Posted by Norm Mac

I don't know the rating on the 40 foot Ventana but the 43 with the 14,700 pound axle leaves you 1400 pounds after full fuel. I am guessing this should be enough to keep you under weight limits when loaded.

According to Freightliner both the 40' and 43' Ventana use the same 14,700 front axle. Which means the Ventana 40' can carry 100 lbs more than the 40' Dutch Star.

[Algoma]

Originally Posted by jmkling

You are right, with fuel you are at 13,300/14,700=90.5%

Before you get too excited, don't forget to add weight for two people sitting in front of the axle, for me that is about 400 pounds so now you are down to 1000 # of your CCC and add a few hundred pounds in the refer and to me that is not nearly enough to full time, or take two more friends with you and a few changes of clothes.

Have you weighed your food? I challenge you to justify a fridge full of food weighs a few hundred pounds. Plus it is no where near the front axle. Also all my clothes are in the bedroom wardrobe which does not add to the front axle load one bit. IMHO that 1000 lb capacity at the front will be barely touched.

[jmkling]

I am not sure what is correct, but the actual weight report I have from Newmar for the VIN of the VT 4369 I was looking at from a dealer listed the limit at 14,000. Now people say it is 14,700. The point missed is the claimed CCC of 8K is false and misleading since when you add a the number of people the coach has seat belts for and fill the fuel tank, you are at your limit or close such that you can never get anywhere close to the 8000#, but if folks want to spend 200K to 300K on a coach "in my opinion" that is poorly engineered, go for it, your money your call.

The point is, you can get the actual weight report when built and if it shows leaving the factory with an axle loading in the low 90% range you are never going to be able to come anywhere close to the CCC unless you go purchase the 15,000 trailer Newmar as discussed or choose to not fill your fuel tank all the way.

I am not stuck with a 2016 coach, so no real skin in the game except I think anyone spending this amount of money would do the necessary due diligence and then make up their minds. I know folks think the valve will be a magic fix and move all the weight aft, when others think it will only be a few 100# difference (I am in this camp) but the surprise will be those who continue to take delivery and find out maybe the fix did not work. I am not a gambler, I worked hard for my money and not going to gamble it away on a company who seems to not care about this issue and continues to build coaches like this while they work on a fix.

Back to researching other brands, I am not going to be posting anymore on this Newmar forum since I expect to be a SOB in the future. But I will continue to read with interest. I have done my best to warn folks and make sure they do their homework....reminds me of a story about a horse and water....

[capoward]

Originally Posted by laurier

When you add fuel, the tank is at the backwhich support most of the weight. Also when you add 500 lbs, the weight is supported "unevenly" by the 3 axles.
My 2 cents theory.

Diesel fuel load directly impacts the front axle for the DP's being discussed. The small DEF tank is installed passenger side behind the tag axle whereas the fuel tank (diesel) is installed between the frame rails right behind the front axle.

Hopefully this link works to view the Freightliner XC chassis:
XC Chassis | Freightliner Chassis RV

[capoward]

Originally Posted by twojayhawks

I was under the impression the fuel tank was just set behind the steer axle.

You're correct.

[Algoma]

Since the OP has decided he is no longer interested in this topic I humbly suggest we kill this thread.

[Route 66]

There are other threads discussing this issue.