2017(18) Dutch Star vs. Mountain Aire for Full Time

[Tobias7000]

Seems like the DSDPs have been getting heavier each year since the 2015 models (based on discussions I've read on this forum). So make sure you have the carry capacity you want. I'd love to have a 600hp motor to climb the mountains easier, but I don't really need it. Sure it's part of the experience, but most of the time we will probably be parked somewhere and enjoying other experiences.

But don't underestimate a good used 3 to 4 year old coach. If well taken care off, the owner will have done all the campaigns and warranty work for you and you might have all the features you want in budget. Problem is it will be hard to find and you'll have to be able to act quickly on it once it's on the market.

This last time we purchased new. I've been back to the dealer 6 times for various warranty items this year. I takes a lot of time and energy to get things right plus all the fuel to travel across state to my dealer. It has literally had to become my hobby this year to get this unit right before warranty expired.

So the pros and cons list is good to consider. When all said and done, we got a great deal on one of the last 2015s on the lot and it had mostly what we wanted - not perfect, but we improve it a little each trip we make (dash mats for glare, higher end foam mattress, cell phone booster, etc.

Enjoy the fun of making your decisions!

[Redbelly]

@busskipper Thank you! We definitely will stay in touch and checkin! Lots of great advise, suggestions, etc!
@Tobias7000 I think the Thread title should have been "New 2017/18 DS vs 2-3 yr used MA/LA" that better describes our "dilemma"! : ) The beautiful thing is we do have time to look and make (we hope) the best decision! Great advise about buying newer used and having the kinks worked out.
Thank you!

[hedgebet]

Red belly,

Congratulations on your impending "fulltimeness" :-) I retired Feb 1 and have spent most of the time in our 2017 DSDP 4369. So much so we are thinking about selling the house and hitting the road Full time. Our DSDP is loaded with options from other lines, paint from London Aire, tile from MA, Countertops from MA etc...
We pull a 2016 Jeep Rubicon and have been as far west at NM. (We live in Florida)
We upgraded from a 2015 4346 Ventana with the B series engine, it pulled the same Jeep.

The big drivers for that upgrade were drive quality and floorplan. Let me be clear the Ventana was a long way from suck. But it did get tossed around and solid axle front end is not as good as IFS. And trying to take a shower was like stuffing a sumo wrestler into a suitcase and turning on the garden hose for me :-) We looked at MA and DSDP and at the time didn't see the value in the price difference.

I can say I would have a little different perspective now that we have spent considerable time in it.

1) Chassis - I don't think you will see a huge difference if you do Spartan chassis. (I don't know enough about the FL MA chassis). Spartan uses the same components on the K2 and K3, the K3 uses bigger frame rails and of course bigger motor and tranny. Ours is awesome, I would consider active air from HWH after you buy as the DS does not do a lot to mitigate side to side sway, and there are surprisingly a number of occasions where you want to level without dropping jacks. I believe the Hadley/Valid system will handle some of that on the MA. They will both pull your jeep like its not there. The MA has a better power to weight ratio, but I haven't had any hills I couldn't pass traffic on and 9 liters gets better mileage than 12. We average 6.8 in non economy mode, and around 6.2 overall. Genset, Oasis, driving etc... All wheel disc brakes is NOT a minor thing, disc beat drum period and you will have to shut it down fast at some point. Both have it on Spartan, it is absent on the FL DS, I don't know about the MA FL.


2) Floorplan - DS 4369 = MA 4519 with a slightly smaller shower. So if that is what you are looking at I would call it a wash. The MA 4553 has the same size shower as the 4369 with a linen closet and the dishwasher is on the right of the sink which sounds minor but I keep trying to jam them through the 1/2 bath wall on the DS :-)

3)Furniture/Cabinets/Lighting - Big upgrades here on the MA. The doors have raised panels on both sides. The ceiling trim is more elaborate... More drawers in Kitchen. The big thing for me is the difference in the driver and passenger seats. DS is OK, MA is luxurious by comparison. The villa sofa is better on MA. Recliners are same, leather appears to be better on MA but that may be something you can get on DS. Number of LEDS is definitely more on MA sounds small, but it makes a difference.

Placement of the vacuum outlet on the MA..WTF were they thinking putting that thing in the 1/2 bath on DS?

The 4369 does have wardrobes in the bedroom which are missing on the matching MA plans. We use them.


4) Switch location/Ergonomics - Whomever designed the switch locations on the DS clearly hasn't lived in one. As an example, I don't need the light location above the toilet in the middle of the night, pretty sure if I made it that far I'm good, it would be better to have it at or near the door where the step is :-) The reliance on the MCD remote for the blinds has proven to be a problem, it will occasionally lose connection to one of the blinds. Not a big deal in and of itself once you learn how to program them. The MA uses switches, in better locations IMHO. (Side note: If one of those blinds is the drivers night shade...don't take it down. They have to be redone at the factory as it goes up/down and front/back.)

5) Cargo space. Our bin space is more than adequate on the DS, but we are not FTimg. The extra 2 inches in height on the MA would be good. I would also suggest you do 60/40 sliders inside the bins vs. all the way through. For the simple reason you are limited to the height between the rail and the pull out if you go full length. If you go one 60 and the other 40 you can put lower height stuff in first on the 60 slide and full height stuff on the 40 slide. Hard to visualize but take a full height rubbermaid bin and try to slide it all the way though. It will stop at the rails on the DS.

6) Electronices/Silverleaf - Initially I thought Silverleaf was not worth it, after spending a lot of time in ours I have reconsidered. Its very helpful to have that info in two locations and its much easier to set up AGS, Oasis etc using the SL interface. The speakers on the DS are ok but not great, the MA has more and includes a bose system. The navigation units on both SUCK!. I would not order the factory nav. I would do a kenwood with airplay, and a tablet with Copilot or Rand McNally.

We have had a bunch of little issues and they do get really annoying as it takes 6 weeks to get an appt to get them fixed in FL during the winter. So if we buy another newmar (Older prevost is the only other option) we will take factory delivery. And while we love our DS if budget allows I would get an MA/LA/Essex the next time. All of them on a Spartan chassis. (FL is fine, but brakes and overbuilt is my preference)

-jeff

[hedgebet]

Red belly,

Sorry for the extra post but left off addressing your battery/composting toilet comment.
We have stayed for weeks at a time unplugged or electric only. The black tank is the critical factor. We get about 7 days out of the black with the toilets set on economy. The MA has the same size tanks so your not getting any more there. The LA increases capacity by 15 gallons.

AS for the composting toilets? Not going to happen in our house. We watched a guy dump his bucket from his airstream. No way I'm hauling 2 buckets of crap out of the RV. :-) I also have vivid memories of a wheelbarrel of manure accidentally being dumped into a hottub by some landscapers a few decades ago. I wear hazmat gear as it is just dumping my tanks :-)

The lithium and solar is cool but i would suggest you live in it for a while before you invest. 1) you'll need more than 3000 watts on the inverter to run an AC and then it likely won't be very long unless you have a huge battery. 2) The AGMs included in the all electric option give you ALOT of capacity. I would guess we could go 2 days on battery with Fridge/TV/Induction/Lights. Then just run the Genset to recharge. On most days we are running it for a bit anyway. 3)Solar - I've read several blogs that talk about the limited effectiveness if there is ANY shade on a panel. Both DS and MA have the awnings that sit on top of the roof, so I suspect your panels will need to be raised and/or tilted to avoid shadow. I'm sure the power guys will have a solution.

[Redbelly]

@hedgebet THANK YOU Jeff for a great post and insight to the decisions we are making! A lot of great information to think about and I appreciate you taking the time to share!

I do like the MA for a lot of reasons that you mention, not least of which are the driver/ pass seats. : ) I do like the subtle elegance of the MA to the LA but we are looking at 2014+ in all the Newmar line starting with the MA and higher. With the arched ceiling AND all hard floors in the 2016's it's hard not to make that the starting point but puts Essex and KA out of range.

We are quickly approaching our full time search window and plan on looking at lots of places after my youngest graduates in June. All very exciting for us!

I did overnight in San Antonio a couple of weeks ago and test drove a 2017 DS 4369 and enjoyed it a lot! Can't imagine driving the MA can be anything but better. Plan to find out in the near future.

All my best and don't hesitate to share anything else you think of in the future!

Cheers!

Sean