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Old 07-02-2019, 09:29 PM   #1
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2019 Canyon Star 3911 F53 Shimmy/Vibration

Hi,

We recently purchased a 2019 CS 3911. Love the floor plan. Very smart and accessible. Works well.

This is our first F53 chassis and I am trying understand what to expect on how it should ride.

I am looking for feedback from Canyon Star owners on the quality/feel of the ride with this extended F53 26000 chassis under the 40 foot motor home. My immediate concern is not the sway or steering, but a pronounced shimmy.

In my case, all tires have been checked for run out, balanced and aligned and the drive shaft has been checked for balance and angle specs as well. Even with that all good, I still feel a shimmy/vibration in the steering, pedal, seat, cabinets, doors and windows on a smooth road. I would expect a smooth ride on a smooth road.

My shimmy starts at 35, very obvious at 50-65, smooth again if you want to push it to 75.

Some people have said that this just the character of the double leaf spring F53 suspension. Others say the solution may be to start aftermarket enhancements. I don't want to go the after market route until I am sure we are not overlooking the root cause of the vibration.

Please let me know your thoughts/experiences with your similar F53 set up.

Thanks,

GW
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Old 07-02-2019, 10:00 PM   #2
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Have you had an alignment done?
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Old 07-02-2019, 10:19 PM   #3
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Hi Massparanoia,

The sales rep said an alignment was done prior to my pick up to address the shimmy I felt on the test drive (along with balancing and replacing one of the front tires). However, I have not had it aligned in the month I have had it. I was considering that as a possible next move.
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Old 07-02-2019, 10:37 PM   #4
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My 2013 Canyon Star 3940 does not shimmy

GW,

My 2013 Canyon Star 3940 does not shimmy. It seems very stable on smooth roads. It has had some upgrades to the suspension.
The previous owner did a Blue OX Tigertrac bar and a Blue Ox Truecenter steering stabilizer. I have added a front Roadmaster sway bar and have done the cheap handling fix to the front and rear. I recommend all of these upgrades.

I think that you should get a front end allignment with added caster. I had this done to my previous Bay Star and it helped with steering stability. If this doesn't help, I would look at the tires again. You might try getting them re-balanced or maybe getting some Centramatics dynamic wheel balancers. I had these on my last coach and and thinking about getting them for my Canyon Star.

Good Luck,

Jerry
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:45 AM   #5
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We have a 2014, 3921 toy hauler. It has the typical ride for a gas chassis motorhome but have never had a vibration issue. I would have your dealer address the problem before spending any of your own money trying to fix it.
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:51 AM   #6
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I agree with the above post.

You want the issue corrected, not hidden with upgrades, if they would even hide it.

There is something wrong and its in your best interest to get them to correct it on a brand new chassis.
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Old 07-03-2019, 08:58 AM   #7
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Thanks for all the replies.

We are going to schedule another alignment.
We have had some alignment shops say the front end can be aligned but the back end cannot be aligned. Can anyone confirm that?

We have big chassis alignment shop say they can schedule us for a front end and back end alignment. This is something they normally do for motor homes. Both front and back get aligned.

However, another big chassis alignment shop says there is not really a way of aligning the rear end. As opposed to aligning the back end they say they can shim the back end to adjust for the weight of the "home box" that MH manufacturers put on the chassis. Their point was that once the MH manufacturer puts a box on the chassis, it could create an alignment/squaring issue that needs to be shimmed to fix, not aligned, like the front.

Does this sound correct?
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Old 07-03-2019, 07:51 PM   #8
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If you don't mind a drive to Orlando, go visit Josam for alignment, they are highly regarded. They did ours and it tracks beautifully. I believe the front end alignment options are toe-in and caster (with shims). They can tell you for sure about rear axle alignment but I think adjustments are limited to shims to correct any ride height issues due to weight distribution issues. A final thought, tire pressures matter a lot on ride comfort and handling. I think Josam can do a 4 corner weighing to help you set tire pressures accordingly. For what it's worth, my coach has had just the following done: correct tire pressures for my loading (90 front and 95 rear), a Josam alignment and a rear track bar. It handles and rides every bit as well as my Safari Sahara diesel pusher (Magnum leaf spring suspension) did and I can drive it all day long with one hand on the wheel.

If Barry (the service manager at Josam) can't offer 4 corner weighing, call the Escapees RV Park in Bushnell. They offer 4 corner weighing for $55 (MH+towed vehicle).
https://www.escapees.com/education/smartweigh/

One other thought: perhaps you have a front wheel bearing that is set up a little too loose.
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Old 07-05-2019, 05:47 AM   #9
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Thanks for the helpful insight. I appreciate the feedback and suggestions.
We are set to have the alignment next week and will report back what we learn and how that impacts the shimmy.

I am interested in other feedback from owners of the 3911 or others on the longer F53 26000# chassis. I have only driven one for this past month, so feedback from long(er) time owners is very helpful. I am also seeking to ride in a couple of other F53s and Canyon Stars this month. If you are along my route from Cleveland thru Nashville back to Parrish Fl by July 30, please let me know if you would be open to a quick meet up. Private message me to work out the details.

Thanks,

GW
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Old 07-05-2019, 10:20 AM   #10
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Alignment

Sorry to hear of your problems.

I am an Instructor for I-Car and provide training to techs, there are several classes on suspension and steering etc.

Tires may be the issue and most likely. Depends what was done on the prior balancing. That the tires and rims have been check for radial and lateral run out , not out of round and the tires have been road force balance. A tire can be balanced and still have a vibration. Some tires have an acceptable road force tolerance after a road force balance. NOT all shops have the equipment to do a road force balance .

I had a coach with the same problem. I called the tire manufacture which was Goodyear and they referred me to dealer who could road force balance the tires and if after balancing the tires failed road force specs would replace the tires. In my case they all tires failed including the spare. There was no cost to me except time and gas. No more vibration!

Read link below.

https://www.discounttire.com/learn/r...iAAEgKnufD_BwE


As to the front alignment. Caster, camber and toe. Be sure that the preferred settings are in the middle of the preferred range. You did not mention any pulling upon braking, drifting, pulling upon acceleration and road crown drift.I have to assume that side to side difference in caster , camber are within 1/2 degree with each other , that SAI ,included angles, scrub radius and that the steering center link are parallel to datum are all correct.

The coach has a solid rear axle. Do not assume that there is no adjustment. There is some adjustment.
Need to check axle:
1) Thrust Angle
2) Off set
3) Set back
4) Two point three position axle check done.

You stated that the driveshaft angle was correct but you could still have the above conditions.

Shims under the front spring seats are used in a solid front axle to set caster or shims and bushings at the knuckle can be used to set caster and camber.

As to toe in and toe out .To get better handling have the toe in set a little on the strong side between 1/32 and 1/16 inch but be careful to much will cause some tire scuffing.

Due to camber roll on front tires rotate tires every 6000 miles would be best.

All said I would guess that the vibration is due to tires having out of specs road force.

Keep us informed.
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Old 07-05-2019, 11:32 AM   #11
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2019 Canyon Star 3911 F53 Shimmy/Vibration

I agree with RobertT, very comprehensive answer.
A Road Force balancer (RFB) actually loads the tire tread while spinning. I would start there and find a shop that has a RFB. I had a 16CS 26K 3710, and although at times it was pushed all over the road, never had this shimmy you describe.
2 years ago we had a member go through exactly what you are dealing with, he had been passed around from dealer to tire shop. I donít remember if he ever got it resolved, I will search for his thread.
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Old 07-05-2019, 11:49 AM   #12
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2019 Canyon Star 3911 F53 Shimmy/Vibration

Well Waddayaknow. Vibration fixed......
https://www.irv2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286669

Loose King Pins?
https://www.irv2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248182
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Old 07-06-2019, 01:26 AM   #13
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Thanks Robert and Stuart.

This is very good information. Thanks for the links and ideas. I appreciate all the insight.

Since my journey began a little more than a month ago the tires were balanced 7 times including spin balance (4 times), road force balanced (all six tires), bead balanced (just the front), spun balanced again with the beads in the front (oooops), spun balance again with beads removed, checked for lateral and radial run out on all tires and wheels (resulting in 4 replaced tires on the back and one replaced on the front). At that time we also added the Centramatic Wheel Balancers). The drive shaft was evaluated three times. Once by a Ford dealer that said it was not a cause of vibration, then by a Ford dealer that balanced two sections with pipe clamps to reduce vibration and most recently by the drive shaft fabricator that confirmed it was within tolerance (but while they had it off, they added some weights and checked all the angles).

The drive shaft fabricators are confident all four drive shafts are dialed in and not causing any vibration. Three of these folks drove with me after their work to feel the shimmy intensity at each speed (40 to 75) but could not isolate a source.

The last tire dealer (who did the run out and replaced the 4 back tires (Michellin XRV) and removed the beads from the front tires and spun balanced them) is confident that the new back tires are true and balanced and the front tires are true and balanced. When he was done he rode with me to assess the shimmy that remained despite all this work. His opinion was this is not a tire shimmy and he believes it is originating in the back of the vehicle, as that is where it is most noticeable, even though he admits you feel it in the steering wheel, seats and peddle. The seats shake, as well as the windows and door. But his assessment is that is secondary to the movement he feels in the back. He was clear to say this is not a bumping feeling, but a side to side shimmy. I agree, it has always been a side to side shimmy, not a bumping.

So the alignment idea seems to be the best next step, thinking that the unit could be tracking out of line. At that time I will have this third Ford service center also take another look at those king pins for a third opinion.

Thanks again for the insight. I welcome all insight and experiences. This is helping.

GW
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Old 07-06-2019, 01:42 AM   #14
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Need to have a good truck steering and suspension shop take a look at it.
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