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Old 01-02-2015, 08:59 PM   #15
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Plastic coaches? Nice insult.

You will notice many gold plated Prevost and similar coaches have 4 - 5 AC units because they also have larger generators to support them. They also have more robust electrical systems that few places that cater to plastic coaches can provide enough juice to run them all. I suppose such a coach would need 240V service to fully use all its features without using the generator.

Anyway...

Why do they do this? Well, at least for units built for large parties, performers, celebrities and such it is for a few reasons.

1. Redundancy. If a band has to get from point A to point B to meet a schedule they can not afford to have an AC unit go down making the riders become uncomfortable.

2. More zones for individual comfort. Again, if something like a band wants to section off the primary performer(s) from the supporting cast and have their own comfort level, then more zones allow that.

3. Sudden Heat Shock. The band comes off stage and are all hot and sweaty along with bringing on board a few extra fans and such the extra body heat can quickly impact the temps inside the coach so more AC units over come this problem.

Now, that doesn't mean that folks with loads of cash that want a rock star coach don't wan't 4-5 units just because they can. That is cool and more power to them.

For the "average" plastic coach owner, 4 units would mean about 55-60 amps of the standard 50 amp service (50 amps on each leg) would be used up. I believe that would require a 12.5KW generator to replicate 50 amp shore power.

This would also push plastic coach prices closer towards gold plated coach price ranges for the beefed up suspension needed to handle all the extra weight of a 20KW generator supporting multiple large inverters and such.

Besides, plastic is lighter than gold.
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Old 01-02-2015, 10:24 PM   #16
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Last summer we spent 3+ months in Dallas during June, July, August part of September. It was very hot! Were were able to keep the coach comfortable for us (73-4) but the electric bills were heart stopping! This was in an 08 Essex
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Old 01-03-2015, 05:36 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketList View Post
Most all 45' Prevost Converters and Newells install 4 each 15M btu rooftop AC units (excluding cruiseaire and OTR AC installed by some converters). Newmar (and most other plastic coaches) only install 3 each 15M btu rooftop units on their largest 45' coaches. My questions to Newmar Owners who have a 45' long King Aire, Essex, London and Mountain with 3 each 15M btu rooftop units are:

1) Have you ever been in hot weather ( over 105 degrees) wherein the three 15M units were not adequate to maintain a low 70 degree temperature inside?
2) And when in the same hot weather with the AC units shut off and the interior coach temperature approached the exterior temperature, how long would it take the 3 AC units to cool down the coach to low 70's?

The reason I ask about the performance is if they are not adequate in the hottest temperatures then maybe i should consider ordering a 4th AC unit (providing Newmar would accommodate this special request).
Plastic coaches ??
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Old 01-03-2015, 07:48 AM   #18
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My 2011 Essex does not stay comfortable in the Texas summer, but I think it is an air circulation issue rather than a lack of BTU cooling capacity. We bought the coach used last Spring. We use a floor fan to increase the circulation, but will eventually make it to Nappanee to have the ducting checked out.
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Old 01-03-2015, 08:10 AM   #19
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Plastic coaches ??
Fiberglass is a form of plastic.
I agree it would seem less "insulting" if the OP had used "fiberglass" in place of "plastic", but I think he was trying to offer that as the difference between a bus shell (metal) coach and all the other coaches.
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Old 01-03-2015, 09:42 AM   #20
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OK...I'll apologize to BucketList for being snide in my earlier post. It was self gratifying but not my best post.

But let me recap and expand on what I think is still pertinent to your question.

1. Most Prevost coaches are better equipped in the electrical capabilities because of the general clientele that buy them for the more advanced features.

2. Commercial/entertainer operator/owners have some specific needs that are addressed by the larger number of AC units both for performance and redundancy.

3. Production based coaches are equipped so as to be priced for sale to a larger base of buyers. That means they won't load up a coach to such a degree to be competitive with others that vie for the same customer base.

As to the need for 4 AC units on a 45 Newmar or other well insulated coaches I think it would be a marginal, at best, use of money for the most part. My first guess is that Newmar would not make that kind of mod and it would require an outside business to to that but I don't know that for fact. If Newmar did do this than it would probably be the most cost effective source.

That being said, if a buyer had a significant need for the redundancy of a 4th AC unit than that is a value only they can decide if it was worth it. The weight penalty is only around 200# plus some additional wire so it probably wouldn't be a problem in CCC for the most part. If the coach came with a 12.5 KW generator that would probably meet the needs of running all 4 units, basic coach needs like a res refer, a TV or 2 and perhaps even a coffee maker/microwave. Of course, at would mean a very well thought out wiring scheme and energy management system to ensure things work well together. It would also require either a separate thermostat or a more robust one that can handle more than 3 inputs. The trick would be the layout of sensors to properly zone out the 4 units to balance out the work load. That would mean normal 50A service would also be able to run a coach like that with similar restrictions. Just look out for the power bill. LOL

In the end, I don't think the 4th AC will be needed for general use but more for the redundancy aspect. Yes, if the coach is allowed to heat up for some reason and the owner wanted a way to more quickly cool it down, then the 4th AC would certainly help in that task. It would also serve some purpose if the owner regularly expected large parties of people to enter the coach at a time when outside temps are particularly high.

Again, my apologies to BucketList. At least they mentioned they were looking into buying a plastic NEWMAR! Sorry, couldn't resist that one.
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Old 01-03-2015, 09:50 AM   #21
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Those with 4-5 roof airs use 100 amp service. 2 50 amp plugs.

Our Dutch Star has stayed in the around 72 even when 110 outside. I do set a fan at the back of the full wall slide, just to help circulate. The mid-bath will be 60 inside if we don't crack the door.
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Old 01-03-2015, 10:09 AM   #22
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Thanks to all who have replied. Explanations to my questions make total sense to me.

Now to address my choice of words of " plastic coach". I follow both IRV2 and Prevost Owners Group forums to help educate me in my selection of a future coach. I have read at least a couple dozen posts over the last 3 years in both of these two forums that used the description of plastic coach as a non monocoque rolling platform chassis. Ed Grey in his post above understood what I meant to say. Now will I use the term plastic coach in the future? Not very likely considering some of you took this as an insult. I am pretty sure that I have decided on a Newmar King Aire as I believe that Newmar provides the very best value per dollar in the industry......quality, ability to order modifications, factory delivery, features at price point, etc. Obviously I don't need to convince any of you owning a Newmar product of my observations ( which I learned right here on the Newmar Forum). My choice of these words was NOT meant in any way to be an insult to anyone.
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Old 01-04-2015, 08:19 AM   #23
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Bucket, I can tell you, the current versions DO nOT do a great job in the Texas heat, meaning 95-100 degrees. If you come into the coach mid-day, after the air has been turned down 3-4 degrees, you will be very disappointed in the cooling provided.

I do believe you have enough cooling with the 3 roof units, but the AIRFLOW is the limiting factor. That ceiling feature only allows some 15% of the air coming through the ports in the ceiling to flow into the living area. Mine have actually iced up as a result. I know it looks "purdy", but functionally, this system needs a re-work, in my humble opinion. When I visit the factory I want to have a discussion on this, along with inclusion of a couple supply vents over the front cockpit area. When you move forward past the front seats, there is a tremendous jump in temperature because the foreward-most supply ducts cannot move air into the cockpit.

Another limitation is the grills installed under the Fantastic fans. When you remove one, you can hear the fan motor pick up speed, indicating airflow limitations through these grills.

Finally, I am not impressed with the dash air output, but that,s another story.
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Old 01-04-2015, 08:49 AM   #24
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Slabman, you have checked this thread by the Redbaron on EVANS VALVE not installed correctly.
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Old 01-04-2015, 09:00 AM   #25
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I should add that although we can keep our coach comfortable(to us) we also run a dehumidifier constantly to try and maintain reasonable humidity levels. The coach ac cannot seem to pull enough water out of the air.
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Old 01-04-2015, 02:33 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by BucketList View Post
Thanks to all who have replied. Explanations to my questions make total sense to me.

Now to address my choice of words of " plastic coach". I follow both IRV2 and Prevost Owners Group forums to help educate me in my selection of a future coach. I have read at least a couple dozen posts over the last 3 years in both of these two forums that used the description of plastic coach as a non monocoque rolling platform chassis. Ed Grey in his post above understood what I meant to say. Now will I use the term plastic coach in the future? Not very likely considering some of you took this as an insult. I am pretty sure that I have decided on a Newmar King Aire as I believe that Newmar provides the very best value per dollar in the industry......quality, ability to order modifications, factory delivery, features at price point, etc. Obviously I don't need to convince any of you owning a Newmar product of my observations ( which I learned right here on the Newmar Forum). My choice of these words was NOT meant in any way to be an insult to anyone.
I expect in the not too distant future the term "plastic coach" will evolve be taken in the same context as "made in Japan".
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Old 01-04-2015, 03:29 PM   #27
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Talking

I think the term "plastic" came from the days when the Prevost XL chassis was the only one available, which utilizes the chromed metal look. The newer H3 chassis actually uses the same Fiberglas sheathing as our "normal" coaches. Personally, I am not offended by the term- it merely differentiates between a bus vs box built on chassis construction. ("sticks n' plastic?)
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Old 01-05-2015, 07:10 AM   #28
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If your still here BucketList here are a few links that may help in your selection.
King Aire Brochure & Owners Guide and everything Newmar.
Hope to see you in the family of other King Aire owners we have.
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