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Old 03-26-2014, 11:22 PM   #1
"Formerly Diplomat Don"
 
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Air Cleaner Air Intake/Pick Up

You'll think I'm nuts, but I want/need to know how certain things work. I was waxing the coach around the air cleaner intake (upper left rear corner) and looked inside and it looks like it's a sealed cavity. On my Monaco, the screen was removable and you could access the top of the 6" air intake tube.

My mind immediately we to....they forgot to drill this out. Yesterday, I started looking up above the engine and saw no openings. The 6" air intake goes up into a cavity in the back cap and that's it.

So.....I took off the air intake tube between the air cleaner and where it attaches to the tube that goes straight up into the cavity. Looked with a light and could see the arc of the fiberglass that is visible through the outer vent. Ran fiber optic up there and still couldn't see anything.

I took my ShopVac and configured a large cup over the pipe and attached the vac. I wanted to see if the ShopVac would suck at full power or possibly collapse the hose. I turned it on and could hear air drawing in the upper vent. I went back up there with a flashlight, but since the screen is not removable, you couldn't see down near the back edge of the opening.

Has anyone investigated this or seen one without a screen. I thought I remembered reading that someone was going to rework the air cleaner intake.

I'm guessing that there is an opening at the bottom of the upper intake and they are using the whole back of the coach cap as a large air storage area. My question, does it supply enough air under WOT. I just can't fathom how the area/opening, I can't see in the air intake vent, is as large as a 6" diameter tube. What happens to rain water that gets into that upper vent, there is no drain anywhere.

Hopefully someone has looked at this and can answer my questions. Wish I had a flow meter to check the air.
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Old 03-27-2014, 05:01 AM   #2
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Don, On my 2008 Dutch Star the 6" tubing that went into the intake chamber was only 2 foot long. The rest of the chamber is just an open cavity. I wish the screen opening on top was larger also. There is a rubber valve on the backside of where the 6" tube goes into the chamber to let out water. I changed out my filter to a Donaldson filter housing. I now have 7" tubing going into the chamber from my new air cleaner housing. Here's a link to what I did Air filter? Spike45. There's pictures on the last page of the finished setup. I haven't taken in out on the road yet. Whats your restriction gauge read?
Hope that helps, Steve
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:08 AM   #3
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This is something I have been thinking about myself, good timing.

Nice job SteveWV, was there any"seat of the pants" feel?
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Old 03-27-2014, 02:32 PM   #4
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Don, thanks for nothing! :-( :-(. Now you're making me go back to work to figure this out on my own coach.
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Old 03-27-2014, 04:02 PM   #5
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Steve......I REALLY like the addition of the Donaldson with the access panel right there in your face for changing the air filter. My Monaco had a Donaldson and was in the power cord reel bay.

I would be fine with just switching out the Ecolite with the Donaldson and leave everything at 6". I liked using just the element on my Monaco and only took a few minutes to change. It looks like just finding a 90 degree elbow and rubber connection hoses would allow for an easy connection of the Donaldson to the engine and the rear connection should be a match.

But.....I'm still concerned with the air intake at the top. Looking down into the mesh, I can't see an opening. I know it's there because I could hear/feel the ShopVac sucking air. My concern still is....is there enough of an opening at that upper intake vent that equates/matches up to a 6" or 7" diameter tube that connects to it.

The large chamber would be fine as it could provide surplus air on short throttle ups, but is there a sufficient amount of an opening to provide enough air on a hard hill climb.

I really wish I knew how that chamber was shaped and how much of the cap it uses. Looking up from inside the engine compartment, there is a piece of plywood, the length of the cap that looks like it might be the bottom of the air chamber. It's fiberglassed in on al sides.

My thoughts.....I don't think anything can be done at the upper intake vent. The screen prevents access and any work there would probably let water in. My Monaco had a straight pipe inside the upper air intake that led directly to the air cleaner. They removed water by putting a bend down near the air cleaner and used a rubber purge valve.

My thought would be to drill the plywood floor to the chamber from inside the engine compartment. Now, the air draw would be collecting hot engine air, but if you used a hole saw, you could add a short snorkel that dropped down and angled back toward the engine grill, drawing outside air. Even a 3" diameter snorkel would give plenty of additional air.

The problem again.....how is that air chamber designed and is the plywood part of it. AND.....is there really an issue. I'm going to try and get my fiber optic probe into the upper air intake to see the size of the opening.
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Old 03-27-2014, 04:33 PM   #6
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Don,
What is the measurements of the intake in inches LxW?
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:03 PM   #7
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Don, your the only guy on here that makes me realize I didn't take enough photos at the factory.

I have photos of a rear cap off and the back of the coach before the cap is added. But not of the inside of the rear cap.

We need somebody to snap a photo of how it's assembled.

If it doesn't snow tomorrow and they don't have me work, I'll get over to the coach and do some digging.
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:27 PM   #8
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Don, When I pulled the 6" pipe out of my chamber I looked up inside the best I could. The 7" I put back in just fit. The bottom part of the chamber is lined in metal maybe a foot high. The rest is just the fiberglass cap. The cavity is not that large maybe 10 or 12 inches square, would be my best guess. On my coach it has the storage in the rear closet that extends into the rear cap. I think the piece of plywood you see above the air filter is the bottom of that storage area(at least it is on my coach).
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:33 PM   #9
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Steve,
That cavity has area of a 10.9 inch pipe. that is why I ask Don what the size
of the inlet is.
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:41 PM   #10
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I don't own a Newmar and can't visualize what the concern is. But two thoughts cone to mind:
1) Google Helmholtz resonance - it can supercharge the intake.
2) Wide open throttle (WOT) is irrelevant - diesel engines aren't throttled. Air flow into the engine is a matter of RPM.
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:49 PM   #11
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Don,

I can only speak from experience with my 2000 DS. The air intake is made up of a module that appears to be made of ABS. This module is just inside of the screened opening in the rear cap. The 6" intake pipe from the filter comes into the bottom of this module and sticks up about 1". Also in the bottom of this module is a rubber duckbill drain similar to the one on your fresh water tank overflow drain, only on a smaller scale. So any water that enters through the screen can drain out. If you look up on the left side of the pipe at the bottom of the plywood that goes all the way across you should see the duckbill drain. So your not drawing air from a big open cavity above the plywood.

As for the screened air intake opening I have 8 slots that measure 1.5" X 4". which equal 48 square inches. A 6" pipe has only a little over 28 square inches. So there should be plenty of air available.

You might want to go out after dark with a good light and peer into the rear cap screened opening and see what it looks like. It's hard to see in there during bright sunlight.

Even though your MH is 14 years newer it's hard to believe Newmar would make that much of a change in this area.
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotten-Red View Post
Don,

I can only speak from experience with my 2000 DS. The air intake is made up of a module that appears to be made of ABS. This module is just inside of the screened opening in the rear cap. The 6" intake pipe from the filter comes into the bottom of this module and sticks up about 1". Also in the bottom of this module is a rubber duckbill drain similar to the one on your fresh water tank overflow drain, only on a smaller scale. So any water that enters through the screen can drain out. If you look up on the left side of the pipe at the bottom of the plywood that goes all the way across you should see the duckbill drain. So your not drawing air from a big open cavity above the plywood.

As for the screened air intake opening I have 8 slots that measure 1.5" X 4". which equal 48 square inches. A 6" pipe has only a little over 28 square inches. So there should be plenty of air available.

You might want to go out after dark with a good light and peer into the rear cap screened opening and see what it looks like. It's hard to see in there during bright sunlight.

Even though your MH is 14 years newer it's hard to believe Newmar would make that much of a change in this area.
Those measurements work out to be the same inside dia of a 6 inch pipe
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:05 PM   #13
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Intake screen size

Art, You got me curious so I went out and measured. On my 2008 the screened opening is 3 1/2" at the top tapers out on one side to 7" and is 15" from top to bottom. What does that equal pipe size?
Steve
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:01 PM   #14
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All great responses and things are getting narrowed down. I'm sure the vent opening, the area cut into the fiberglass and covered by the screen is sufficiently sized.

My concern is that when you look into that screened area, it looks all sealed up. It actually has a shape in there like a preformed insert (this may be what Rotten Red is referring to). Even though you can see this preformed shape, you can't see any openings in it because of the screen blocking your view. This is the area I want to see the size of the cut outs/openings.

So......if you were to remove the back cap and look at this air box or intake area, how big are the openings on it. This may be hard to visualize until you look into that screen up on the cap and realize you don't see any openings. On my Monaco, you could remove the screen and the 6" air intake pipe was right there pointing upward. There was a small cavity around it and there was no restriction between the end of the pipe and the screened opening.

Hope I'm not beating this to death. I will try and see if my fiber optic tip will fit through the screen and be able to look around.

SteveWV......When you had the pipe out and could see the box up in the cap, I imagine that if you reached you hand up there with you palm against the inside of the back of the cap and slid it up, it would slide up into the opening we can't see. That's the opening I'm looking to determine the size of.
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