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Old 11-19-2016, 09:19 AM   #1
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Autoformer with Surge Protection AND/OR Surge Guard

Would like opinions on whether or not I should install both or just one or the other. If both, in what order would you install and would you get the autoformer with or without the surge protection option?

Thanks!
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Old 11-19-2016, 09:28 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specmga1 View Post
Would like opinions on whether or not I should install both or just one or the other. If both, in what order would you install and would you get the autoformer with or without the surge protection option?

Thanks!
Here is a thread I started when I was installing mine........
Surge protection plus a hughes autoformer

My arrangement is as follows:
1. Park power
2. Surge Guard
3. Autoformer
4. Transfer switch

Been in service since 2009.............My Autoformer is "Behind" my Surge guard, as I wanted it protected...........they are extremely heavy, and the shipping costs back to Hughes is high for repair's

Hope this helps you out ........
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Old 11-19-2016, 09:33 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palehorse89 View Post
Here is a thread I started when I was installing mine........
Surge protection plus a hughes autoformer

My arrangement is as follows:
1. Park power
2. Surge Guard
3. Autoformer
4. Transfer switch

Been in service since 2009.............My Autoformer is "Behind" my Surge guard, as I wanted it protected...........they are extremely heavy, and the shipping costs back to Hughes is high for repair's:

Hope this helps you out ........
Thank you. This is what make sense to me. I am only wondering if I should buy the new autoformer with built in surge protection or would that be redundant?
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Old 11-19-2016, 10:02 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by specmga1 View Post
Thank you. This is what make sense to me. I am only wondering if I should buy the new autoformer with built in surge protection or would that be redundant?
The Newer Autoformer w/surge protection would be the way to go.......
Use the "Search Bar" at the top of the page, there is a lot of threads on this subject........
What type are you thinking about? and what are you putting it in?
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Old 11-19-2016, 10:20 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palehorse89 View Post
Here is a thread I started when I was installing mine........
Surge protection plus a hughes autoformer

My arrangement is as follows:
1. Park power
2. Surge Guard
3. Autoformer
4. Transfer switch

Been in service since 2009.............My Autoformer is "Behind" my Surge guard, as I wanted it protected...........they are extremely heavy, and the shipping costs back to Hughes is high for repair's

Hope this helps you out ........
I had the same concerns about protecting the autoformer. I called Hughes and they recommended that the PI EMS be placed after the autoformer
If your surge guard has low/high voltage protection ,like to PI EMS, you are not going to fully utilize the autoformer as the low voltage cutoff would shutdown current flow and the autoformer will not have a chance to do it's thing.
What I did was put an inexpensive surge guard ( e.g. spike protection) between the park power and the autoformer, then after the autoformer is the ""good" PI EMS that will monitor the power coming out of those devices before it enters the transfer switch

park power -> spike/surge protector -> autoformer -> PI EMS -> xfer switch

It all fits neatly in the power bay and each component is attached with a plug and receptacle so that any device can be removed from the flow in the event of failure by simply unplugging it.
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Old 11-19-2016, 10:21 AM   #6
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This is always a fun topic.

I have the now extinct Power Master VC 50 (Voltage Controller) in front of the Progressive Industries PT50 C.

While the Hughes Autoformer and Power Master Voltage Controller are both more expensive than the Progressive Industries EMS, their function is to monitor and boost low voltage and provide surge protection. I believe the surge protection of the Hughes and Power Master is identical to that of PT50 C. Likewise, one of the functions of the PT50C is to defeat low voltage pass through to the transfer switch and on the appliances. If the PT50C is in front of the Autoformer low voltage won't pass through to the Autoformer and it won't see any voltage to boost.

Additionally, when our transfer switch died, we went with one that has all the features of the PT50C built in. We left the VC and PT50C as originally configured.

The only noticeable difference is the delay time. The PT50C delays power on its own a little over 2 minutes. Seems the new Transfer switch does the same. Takes almost 5 minutes for the power kick on.

The current set up has been in use for 2 years full time without issue. Prior to that, the VC50 and PT50C were in use 2 years.

Lots of discussion of which comes first. I also have a home built 50 amp line tester. If it checks out for open ground, neutral, etc. I'm good to go and know what to expect from the 3 boxes.

Just another POV from the peanut gallery.
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Old 11-19-2016, 10:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palehorse89 View Post
The Newer Autoformer w/surge protection would be the way to go.......
Use the "Search Bar" at the top of the page, there is a lot of threads on this subject........
What type are you thinking about? and what are you putting it in?
Autoformer with Surge Guard going into a 2017 Dutch Star. I'm just not sure about the order because some people say it should be the opposite way
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Old 11-19-2016, 10:28 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specmga1 View Post
Autoformer with Surge Guard going into a 2017 Dutch Star. I'm just not sure about the order because some people say it should be the opposite way
Check the specs on your transfer switch. You may already have the PI PT50C features built in. You would then only need the Autoformer with surge protection. While the Autoformer is more expensive than the PT50C - it is cheaper than the transfer switch with bells and whistles.
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Old 11-19-2016, 10:31 AM   #9
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[QUOTE=PanJH;3341653]I had the same concerns about protecting the autoformer. I called Hughes and they recommended that the PI EMS be placed after the autoformer
If your surge guard has low/high voltage protection ,like to PI EMS, you are not going to fully utilize the autoformer as the low voltage cutoff would shutdown current flow and the autoformer will not have a chance to do it's thing.
What I did was put an inexpensive surge guard ( e.g. spike protection) between the park power and the autoformer, then after the autoformer is the ""good" PI EMS that will monitor the power coming out of those devices before it enters the transfer switch

park power -> spike/surge protector -> autoformer -> PI EMS -> xfer switch

It all fits neatly in the power bay and each component is attached with a plug and receptacle so that any device can be removed from the flow in the event of failure by simply unplugging it.[/QUOTE

What you're saying makes perfect sense to me. What make or model of spike/surge protector did you use between the park power and autoformer?

Also, would the new autorformer with Surge protection eliminate the need for the spike/surge protector?
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Old 11-19-2016, 10:33 AM   #10
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I would recommend the Hughes Autoformer with Surge protection FIRST followed by the Progressive Industries EMS-HW-50C and then your transfer switch, or you can install the EMS-HW-50C after the transfer switch.

My setup is similar to Steve's in that I have the PowerMaster VC-50 FIRST followed with the PI EMS-HW-50C and then my transfer switch.

It has been like that since 2010.

Love it!

Dr4Film ----- Richard
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Old 11-19-2016, 10:37 AM   #11
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I would recommend the Hughes Autoformer with Surge protection FIRST followed by the Progressive Industries EMS-HW-50C and then your transfer switch, or you can install the EMS-HW-50C after the transfer switch.

My setup is similar to Steve's in that I have the PowerMaster VC-50 FIRST followed with the PI EMS-HW-50C and then my transfer switch.

It has been like that since 2010.

Love it!

Dr4Film ----- Richard
Makes sense to me. So the Autoformer with surge protection would eliminate the need for any extra surge protection between the power post and the autoformer, right?
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Old 11-19-2016, 10:38 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Dr4Film View Post
I would recommend the Hughes Autoformer with Surge protection FIRST followed by the Progressive Industries EMS-HW-50C and then your transfer switch, or you can install the EMS-HW-50C after the transfer switch.

My setup is similar to Steve's in that I have the PowerMaster VC-50 FIRST followed with the PI EMS-HW-50C and then my transfer switch.

It has been like that since 2010.

Love it!

Dr4Film ----- Richard
Hi Richard. Hope all your fluid issues are all buttoned up.

Have ya been able to determine if the Power Master is going to make a comeback?
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Old 11-19-2016, 11:25 AM   #13
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Makes sense to me. So the Autoformer with surge protection would eliminate the need for any extra surge protection between the power post and the Autoformer, right?
That's correct!

Actually the Autoformer has surge protection along with surge protection inside the PI EMS-HW-50C unit.

Once one set of MOV's in the Autoformer have been sucked up the surge will be sucked up by the second set in the EMS-HW-50C.

However, neither will protect you from a direct lightning strike.

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Old 11-19-2016, 11:31 AM   #14
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Hi Richard. Hope all your fluid issues are all buttoned up.

Have ya been able to determine if the Power Master is going to make a comeback?
Hi Steve,

We got back on the road a lot quicker than I had anticipated due to the ruptured coolant hose.

I believe Todd Coffelt is all done with the PowerMaster. Not sure what had happened. Possibly the company(s) that he was working with decided not to make that equipment any longer.

That happened to the Banks Power Pack Ottomind Control. Banks did a survey and decided that they didn't sell enough units to warrant the research, design and manufacturing of a replacement Ottomind so they scrapped the entire product line.

Dr4Film ----- Richard
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