Autoformers in the News

[SteveUpp]

Transformers are not 100% efficient... I can't find specs on Hughes Autoformer efficiency but it is unlikely that their product is less than 95% efficient.



Given the trend to all electric RVs, the amount of energy consumed by the Autoformer itself compared to the residential refrigerator, electric water heaters, electric floor heat, battery chargers, laptops, TVs, etc, inside the coaches is what is most likely responsible for the voltage drop that the parks are seeing.

[CoreyinWP]

Originally Posted by NealC

I’ll be parked next to Corey in the detention lot doing leaf raking duty.

I don't think that would work Neal....with our Solar panels going full blast, we would be taking some of the solar energy away from the rest of the world.

[TXiceman]

If you mount the Autotransformer in the basement, who is the wiser to it being used.

The article is pretty much bovine manure. The issue is inadequate wiring in the park for the demands of the RVs. Many older parks are in bad need of repairs and updating to serve the RV community.

Ken

[Wizard]

Never been asked if I had one or not. Only been asked about slide outs, pets and 50 or 30.
No wait, last time out was asked for vaccination records for pets

[C.Martin]

Does anyone know if there is a paper/report whatever explaining the physics of how this is a problem?

Our Autoformer doesn’t get used often...but while stuck for three days in a Freightliner Yard awaiting repairs with 105v shore power available... That wasn’t going to happen without Autoformer.

[NealC]

Originally Posted by CoreyinWP

I don't think that would work Neal....with our Solar panels going full blast, we would be taking some of the solar energy away from the rest of the world.

I'm raising my rates on electrical buy back effective immediately. And here we were actually powering campgrounds. Well, back to raking leaves, I miss my leaf blower. I promise to behave next time.

[Solo_RV_Guy]

To expand on the National Electrical Code:


The NEC is a "model Code" written by the National Fire Protection Agency (an insurance company group). It's up to state and local jurisdictions (city, county, township, etc) to adopt them *as they see fit*. That means the model code can be adopted as presented, modified, or ignored altogether.


It's premature to get ones knickers in a bunch for several reasons, the first of which is that many jurisdictions do not adopt new Code as it's released, it often takes 1-5 years. In my locale the last Code update was around 4 years ago; second, my jurisdiction did not adopt all of the new Code - some changes were not implemented when various interest groups (mostly home builders) objected to things that would raise the cost of new home construction by 0.01%.


Georg Ohm's "law" dates back to the early 1800s and it explains the relationship between current, power, resistance, and voltage. Officer Einstein of the Physics Police will arrest you for violations.

[C.Martin]

What puzzles me is they targeted a device that compensates for a terribly designed grid...instead of looking at why campgrounds have low voltage. It couldn’t be the fact the transformer isn’t big enough, the lengths of cable runs, the gauge wire they use, the corroded contacts on all the outlets. The engineers at Disney’s Ft. Wilderness don’t seem to have a problem hosting 800 plus big rigs and not having voltage drop issues. And they have surge arrestors on all the sub panels to further protect the guest. Maybe we need better oversight on Campground Wiring practices...

[WYRon]

In my view all sides of this argument are somewhat correct depending on your point of view. I'm a mechanical engineer, so I think about this easiest using the water flow analogy where voltage is analogous to pressure and amperage is analogous to flow rate.
An autoformer that raises voltage is analogous to a pump. Low water pressure in a park is caused by essentially the same undersized supply system as low voltage. If you have low water pressure, you could put a pump on the line to your RV to raise your pressure back up. You won't use any more water that you would if the low pressure situation didn't exist. However, the rest of the park will see even lower water pressure (because you're getting your normal amount of water, rather than the reduced flow everyone else is getting), and consequently even more flow reduction.

[BonS]

It's sad, I've been a guest on NFPA committees and they they were making decisions that involved expertise in electronics and there wasn't an electrical engineer on the committee. Furthermore, the ones leading the charge for change were selling "bad science" for their benefit. I spent over a year defeating a competitor that was pushing to change NFPA guidelines to their benefit. They failed when good science was presented.

The "facts" about about autoformers and autotransformers vary depending upon whether we are talking about resistive devices such as toasters and coffee pots versus synchronous motor devices such as refrigeration motor compressors.

Since most power consumption is by air conditioners and residential refrigerators they should be given the greatest consideration IMHO, and they consume the same power whether the voltage is high or low. Just the current draw changes. So, in this case, autotransformers don't "hurt" the campground. But they do help the camper because more current creates more heat in the device.

Resistive devices do draw more power when voltage is higher but they have a task to do. For example, your toast is brown in less time so the toaster turns off more quickly. So, again, autotransformers don't hurt the campground because the same work is being done.

[TJ]

Originally Posted by WYRon

In my view all sides of this argument are somewhat correct depending on your point of view. I'm a mechanical engineer, so I think about this easiest using the water flow analogy where voltage is analogous to pressure and amperage is analogous to flow rate.
An autoformer that raises voltage is analogous to a pump. Low water pressure in a park is caused by essentially the same undersized supply system as low voltage. If you have low water pressure, you could put a pump on the line to your RV to raise your pressure back up. You won't use any more water that you would if the low pressure situation didn't exist. However, the rest of the park will see even lower water pressure (because you're getting your normal amount of water, rather than the reduced flow everyone else is getting), and consequently even more flow reduction.

Not if the source water line also has a flow limiter...like the park electric service does. It is called a "breaker" (50A or 30A). An autotransformer can only use power up to the level the breaker supports.

Simply put, the relationship between voltage and amperage is inversely proportional; when one goes up, the other goes down. The overall power potential remains the same. The breaker will limit the draw to 30A or 50A, depending on its rating.

TJ

[WYRon]

Originally Posted by Tranquil Jim

Not if the source water line also has a flow limiter...like the park electric service does. It is called a "breaker" (50A or 30A). An autotransformer can only use power up to the level the breaker supports.

Simply put, the relationship between voltage and amperage is inversely proportional; when one goes up, the other goes down. The overall power potential remains the same. The breaker will limit the draw to 30A or 50A, depending on its rating.

TJ

I said you would only use the water/electrical (flow/amperage) that you normally would. I assume you would not normally use more than the breaker can handle.

[TechWriter]

Originally Posted by redbaron73

I just read this in an email from technorv:

Consider the source.

Is that these guys: www.technorv.com and Techno RV YouTube channel?

If so, then right off the bat I'm suspicious. This appears to be yet another monetized RV web/blog/YouTube site masquerading as your friendly helpful next door RVer . . . who just so happens will gladly sell you the products he "reviews".

Ugh

OP, your email said that TechnoRV said "Surge Guard has immediately discontinued their autotransformer models (10175 & 10176 Voltage Regulators)"

Really? From the Surge Guard web site.

The Einstein at TechnoRV may have confused "autotransformer" with "autoformer".

[TJ]

Originally Posted by WYRon

I said you would only use the water/electrical (flow/amperage) that you normally would. I assume you would not normally use more than the breaker can handle.

My comments were responding to your statement "the rest of the park will see even lower water pressure (because you're getting your normal amount of water, rather than the reduced flow everyone else is getting), and consequently even more flow reduction."

When I pay for a 50A site, I am entitled to use up to 50A. So, whether I use 50A directly, or through an autotransformer (which will produce less than 50A to my coach when it is boosting voltage), it is still just 50A at the park pedestal.

If the park is renting more 50A sites then it can support with its electric service, where does the problem lie? Is it me using what I paid for or is it the park renting more sites than it can support?

The theory that using an autotransformer penalizes others is based on the premise that I should voluntarily use less than I paid for so the park can rent more sites than it can support. I'd say that's a faulty premise.

TJ