RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Newmar Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-04-2019, 10:58 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
redbaron73's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,364
Blog Entries: 4
Autoformers in the News

I just read this in an email from technorv:

Quote:
The National Fire Protection Agency (NFPA) has announced a change in the 2020 code that could affect how you connect your RV to power. Do you use an autotransformer/voltage regulator? These devices are designed to increase the voltage to your RV should the voltage drop on your power pedestal. These units convert amps into volts to accomplish this, and this process is now being stated to have ill-effects on surrounding power supplies. The committee for the NFPA wrote this, “The use of autotransformers places severe additional stress to surrounding electrical infrastructure not accounted for in the load calculations in this section. Park operators report that low voltage conditions typically exist when surrounding sites use these add-on devices.”
In a move to lead the way for this change in the code, Surge Guard has immediately discontinued their autotransformer models (10175 & 10176 Voltage Regulators). We have never sold these units at TechnoRV, so it will not affect anything we have sold in the past. There are other autotransformer companies on the market that will be affected by this change. I am not sure what the plan is from the other companies to conform with this new code, but I would guess that this will create change pretty quickly.
__________________

__________________
2019 DSDP 4369 * FREIGHTLINER XCR * HWH ACTIVE AIR

NHSO (Newmar Hoot, Sevierville Original), Kindness Matters
redbaron73 is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-04-2019, 11:38 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Tranquil Jim's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northwest Washington State or Western Montana, depending on the season.
Posts: 3,107
One needs to understand that compliance with the NFPA "Code" is voluntary rather than mandatory unless an individual entity (city, county, state, etc.) adopts it. I think TechnoRV has jumped the gun in declaring autotransformers to be on the way out.

And, the concept cited saying that autotransformers place severe stress on surrounding electrical systems is seriously flawed. This argument has been circulating for years in the RV park world without much credibility.

I would hope that information published on this forum would not cause readers to make premature decisions regarding the use and availability of autotransformers.

TJ
__________________

__________________
Jim (W7DHC), Diane & Mini Schnauzers, Lizzy & Ellie
2018 Mountain Aire 4047 + 2014 Honda CR-V "toad" w/AF1
Tranquil Jim is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 12:06 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 10,330
That is contrary to what Hughes states

How Does It Work
Autoformers are used in industries to stabilize voltage and lower the operating cost of equipment. The Autoformer has 5 windings: 2 primary and 3 secondary. All models have surge and spike protection. When the unit is in Automatic and the park or input voltage is 116 volts or below, the output is 10% over the input. When the input is over 118 volts, the output is 2% over the input.
The Autoformer DOES NOT take power from the park.
It does not affect the park or input voltage, or make electricity.
What it is doing is changing the voltage – amperage relationship, lowering the amperage and raising the voltage. Since appliances run better on higher voltage, lower amperage, less overall power is used from the park, and better service is enjoyed from your RV
An Autoformer running at full output (50amps) will use 1 amp, but will cause appliances to cycle more often and run cooler. This will use less total power from the park.


https://hughesautoformers.com/autofo...-does-it-work/

Autoformer senses outpt voltage.....when it decreases the output voltage is increased by using a different tap (more windings) so output voltage increases W/O changing or affecting input voltage




But the use of the word 'autotransformer' is misleading
Autotransformer is an electrical transformer with only one winding. Not the same as an 'autoformer'
__________________
Is it time for YOUR medication or MINE
2007 Dodge 3500 w/Tractor Motor & NUWA 5vr
US NAVY---USS Decatur DDG-31
Old-Biscuit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 12:46 AM   #4
"Formerly Diplomat Don"
 
Dutch Star Don's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Moorpark, Ca.
Posts: 13,682
NFPA regulations may not be used as a regulatory standard, but they are used by attorneys as the industry standard on how things should operate. Will you get sued for using an autoformer or causing issues with a campground power grid, probably not, but a smart campground will most likely use the information to prohibit them.
__________________
Don & Mary
2019 Newmar Dutch Star 4018
2016 GMC Canyon 4WD Crew Cab
Dutch Star Don is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 02:24 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: TEJAS
Posts: 671
I built my own which merges two 1800 watt units to handle a 30 amp pedestal. It has 5 voltages levels. One straight through, two boosts and one cut. It will never pull more than 30 amps because the pedestal breaker limits me to 30 amps. I don't see how this is a problem!
spyderRV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 04:01 AM   #6
ptw
Senior Member
 
ptw's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 878
The description of how it works on Hughes' website may be factual but it is misleading. This is a better description of how it works. This description explains how they may cause a problem for other people.

Autotransformers steal power? | Good Sam Camping Blog



Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit View Post
That is contrary to what Hughes states

How Does It Work
Autoformers are used in industries to stabilize voltage and lower the operating cost of equipment. The Autoformer has 5 windings: 2 primary and 3 secondary. All models have surge and spike protection. When the unit is in Automatic and the park or input voltage is 116 volts or below, the output is 10% over the input. When the input is over 118 volts, the output is 2% over the input.
The Autoformer DOES NOT take power from the park.
It does not affect the park or input voltage, or make electricity.
What it is doing is changing the voltage – amperage relationship, lowering the amperage and raising the voltage. Since appliances run better on higher voltage, lower amperage, less overall power is used from the park, and better service is enjoyed from your RV
An Autoformer running at full output (50amps) will use 1 amp, but will cause appliances to cycle more often and run cooler. This will use less total power from the park.


https://hughesautoformers.com/autofo...-does-it-work/

Autoformer senses outpt voltage.....when it decreases the output voltage is increased by using a different tap (more windings) so output voltage increases W/O changing or affecting input voltage




But the use of the word 'autotransformer' is misleading
Autotransformer is an electrical transformer with only one winding. Not the same as an 'autoformer'
__________________
Paul, Christy and Leap
2017 Dutch Star 4018, 2017 Jeep Wrangler
ptw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 04:18 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
CountryB's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 4,079
People that buy the Autoformer are doing so to protect their coach because the RV park is not supplying the power they are paying for.

I think it would be a hard case to win where the Park owner sues coach owner for using an Atuoformer, or if your concerned about Park owner telling coach owner to disconnect the device, you could setup the Autoformer like the RVGeeks guys did where it is located in a storage compartment (out of sight).
__________________
Mike ----- 2005 Beaver Patriot Thunder CAT C13 525HP, 42-ft Tag, with HydraLift
**Bvr Chassis Info/Suspension Types/ https://1drv.ms/f/s!AtvAXw_lfqbToxXYREK9YdBP08Jn
**Bvr/Mnco Wiring Diagrams (84-09):https://1drv.ms/f/s!AtvAXw_lfqbTm0WTuuNqpn9a8hCh
CountryB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 06:02 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
knightstorm's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 925
Autoformer to soon be illegal

“Park owners report” low voltage conditions where autoransformers are used.

I totally agree with that statement, as I only connect my autoformer if the voltage is low, so the low voltage is causing the autoformer use - not the other way around.
__________________
2017 Newmar Bay Star 3113.

Former owner of a Morgan powered Bennington
knightstorm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 06:34 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
CoreyinWP's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: West Palm Beach, Fl
Posts: 1,382
Guess I am destined to run from town to town like the fugitive!
__________________
Corey and Tammi
2017 Ventana 4369
2015 Buick Enclave
1360W Solar, BattleBorn LiPo 800ah
CoreyinWP is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 06:48 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
NealC's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Appalachian Campers
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Midlothian, VA
Posts: 4,568
I’ll be parked next to Corey in the detention lot doing leaf raking duty.
__________________
Neal
2017 Newmar Ventana 4037, 1800W Solar, HWH Active Air
NealC is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 06:50 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
DrPhil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 952
"...Park operators report that low voltage conditions typically exist when surrounding sites use these add-on devices.”

IMHO, they've got the chicken before the egg!
__________________
Phil and Laura (and Sam too!)
2017 DSDP 4369 on Spartan K2
2017 Unltd Rhino Rubi Recon Toad
DrPhil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 06:53 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Hit_the_Rhod's Avatar


 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Salvisa, KY
Posts: 3,585
Pretty typical to try to regulate/ban appliances that correct problems caused by inadequate, poorly designed, overloaded, or poorly maintained electrical infrastructure.

"Of COURSE you can add another 25 RV sites to your 120 RV site park whose electrical infrastructure was only designed to handle a maximum of 80 sites!"
__________________
Scot & Laura Kellersberger
Newmar 4 wheel drive Dutch Star 3891, 2005 GMC Canyon. Demco Tow Bar & Baseplate U.S.Army (ret)
1985 - 2006
Hit_the_Rhod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 07:12 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
bruceisla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Foley AL
Posts: 7,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightstorm View Post
“Park owners report” low voltage conditions where autoransformers are used.

I totally agree with that statement, as I only connect my autoformer if the voltage is low, so the low voltage is causing the autoformer use - not the other way around.
Yes ... and it's quite possible that Autoformer users have consumed hamburgers during their stay ... therefore ...
__________________
2005 Newmar Essex 4502, 2013 Caddy SRX
1997 HR Endeavor 37, CAT, 1996 Geo Tracker
bruceisla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 07:13 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Newmar Owners Club
Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Lake McClure, CA
Posts: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptw View Post
The description of how it works on Hughes' website may be factual but it is misleading. This is a better description of how it works. This description explains how they may cause a problem for other people.

Autotransformers steal power? | Good Sam Camping Blog
There are a lot of errors and miscalculations in this article. Unless I am reading it wrong some of his examples are the opposite of OHMS law.
__________________

__________________
2018 Dutch Star 4369 Spartan Chassis
2016 Jeep Cherokee, 1952 Willys CJ3A
10 fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Good news for Ram, ok news for Ford, Bad news for GM tuffr2 Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion 118 08-12-2019 06:15 AM
Surge - Spike - Autoformers ... Oh My! AKOne Alpine Coach Owner's Forum 3 06-21-2018 06:48 PM
Autoformers Melorene 5th Wheel Discussion 2 05-22-2017 07:54 AM
Low voltage at RV site and autoformers jwmaustin MH-General Discussions & Problems 30 03-18-2016 05:35 PM
Hughes Autoformers? Hitchpin Travel Trailer Discussion 5 08-14-2014 07:40 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.