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03-19-2017, 08:08 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Dothan, AL
Posts: 137
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Backing Up With Passive Steering
Has anyone with passive steering experienced any trouble with the tag wheels going hard over in the opposite direction of the backing? I witnessed this occurring while watching a salesman backing a rig out of the lot for someone to test drive. He said "oh, that's normal". I personally don't think he was correct. I did a little research and found that the tags should "lock" in the straight position when the coach is put into reverse.
Are there any owners who have first hand knowledge of this problem?
Thanks in advance!
Quinton
Still looking and dreaming!
__________________
Quinton Miller
2024 Winnebago Navion 24D
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03-19-2017, 08:23 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,368
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Thats the response you would say, When You Forget To Raise The Tag!
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03-19-2017, 08:35 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,120
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I've only backed up my Spartan K2 a few times, but I was watching (and listening) carefully every time. Its clear that the air is let out of the bags as soon as I hit 'R' and furthermore as soon as I move an inch, the tag re-centers. I wonder if what you observed might happen if one doesn't select auto dump for the tag (i.e. manual dump) and weight remains on the tag axle...
__________________
Phil and Laura (and Sam too!)
2017 DSDP 4369 on Spartan K2
2017 Unltd Rhino Rubi Recon Toad
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03-19-2017, 08:52 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Dothan, AL
Posts: 137
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DrPhil, that could be exactly what happened. I was near the rear of the coach and not involved with the event just a bystander. It surely had the tags hard over again the stops and scrubbing them along the pavement. Sure hope there was a substantial hard stop for the tags to land against as they were definitely under stress.
__________________
Quinton Miller
2024 Winnebago Navion 24D
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03-20-2017, 08:44 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 752
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While I'm not 100% sure (it's not my system), I believe the tag gets dumped so there is no chassis weight on it while backing up. I also believe the tag is not actively lifted so it still has its own weight on the tires. I do not know if there is an active lock to hold the tag on center, but if he happened to be turning slightly before backing up, the tag would not be on center and the lock could not engage. Then when he started backing up, it would go hard over, just like you saw. In this example, he would be right in that "That's normal." With no real weight on the tires, the sliding would not damage them.
__________________
To the engineer, the world is a toy box full of sub-optimized and feature-poor toys.
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03-20-2017, 12:50 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wqmiller
Has anyone with passive steering experienced any trouble with the tag wheels going hard over in the opposite direction of the backing?
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This is a typical characteristic of the Passive Steer Tag axle. I have a 17LADP with freightliner passive steer. About ten days ago at Holland RV, The dealer service people were moving my coach out of service bay and the tags jammed and locked and were dragged for a good 50 yds, leaving black skid marks on their pavement. The service people were shocked too. This is "ONE" of the typical characteristics of the passive steer tags. When you observe this characteristic, you question the viability of the passive steer system.
There is also another account of this problem with a spartan chassis in this thread (pg 5)
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/tag-steer-321170-5.html
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03-20-2017, 01:56 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Chester, VA/Zephyrhills, FL
Posts: 1,329
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Not sure how relevant this may be, but when I went through my PDI, they were adament about pulling forward in a straight line for a couple of feet before shifting to reverse. They told me that was all I needed for the tag to straighten out and the pins to lock in.
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Tom and Gloria 2022 Newmar Dutch Star 4081, TOAD: 2017 Buick Enclave/2023 GMC Sierra Denali, Blue Ox Towbar, Baseplate and M&G Braking System
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03-20-2017, 02:55 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Forest City, FL
Posts: 782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomandGloria
Not sure how relevant this may be, but when I went through my PDI, they were adament about pulling forward in a straight line for a couple of feet before shifting to reverse. They told me that was all I needed for the tag to straighten out and the pins to lock in.
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+1
I always do this (pulling 2-3 ft straight before backing) and have never had an issue with our passive tag even when making tight turns in reverse backing into our concrete pad on side of house where we store coach.
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Brian
2017 Dutch Star 4310 (bunks)
2018 Ford Explorer Platinum
Previous: 2010 Tiffin Allegro Red 38QBA
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03-20-2017, 03:35 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 713
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Backing Up With Passive Steering
Yes - Personal Experience here. Recent Freightliner personal experience and definitely not normal.
There is a fix for it and just had it done. Is called "Sear 2016-067 check valve replacement in auxiliary air tank for tag".
Freightliner aware of issue and new check valve is the fix.
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03-20-2017, 07:17 PM
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#10
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Franklin, TN
Posts: 30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wqmiller
Has anyone with passive steering experienced any trouble with the tag wheels going hard over in the opposite direction of the backing? I witnessed this occurring while watching a salesman backing a rig out of the lot for someone to test drive. He said "oh, that's normal". I personally don't think he was correct. I did a little research and found that the tags should "lock" in the straight position when the coach is put into reverse.
Are there any owners who have first hand knowledge of this problem?
Thanks in advance!
Quinton
Still looking and dreaming!
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I have had the same experience as a must complete a three point turn to put in back in storage. My logic was the tag cannot lock in the straight position if it is already in the passive turn position. Therefore, if I know I am going to place the coach in R, I always try to leave myself enough distance in front of the coach to let the comfort drive return to straight position an move forward a couple of feet first. This allows the tag to return straight and permit locking straight before reversing.
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03-23-2017, 09:52 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd956jd956
Yes - Personal Experience here. Recent Freightliner personal experience and definitely not normal.
There is a fix for it and just had it done. Is called "Sear 2016-067 check valve replacement in auxiliary air tank for tag".
Freightliner aware of issue and new check valve is the fix.
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Yup, you sir are 100% correct. Even with this check valve installed, the system needs to be completed aired up. Dumping the tag doesn't change the tag turning in reverse.
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03-24-2017, 11:23 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 206
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That passive steer should be an option. You know - the one I would not pick. Never seen a regular fixed tag wear out the tires any faster than the rest of the tires. just something else to go wrong!!!
__________________
Barry & Cindy
2008 Dutch Star 4304, Cider color
Cummins ISL 425, 2013 Passat TDI Toad
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03-28-2017, 01:40 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 136
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I have talked to Freightliner Custom Chassis about backing up with the passive steer tag after having the tag on my 2016 DS 4018 rotate sideways and jam so the wheels drag when backing up. First of all, they verified that if you keep your tag axle dump switch in the AUTO (center) position the tag automatically dumps to take weight off it when in reverse. Secondly, before backing you must straighten the coach out when going forward to lock the tag axle pins in the straight position. If you do not straighten the coach out before backing up, the tag will not lock in the center position and it will rotate, jam and drag.
Keith
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03-28-2017, 02:16 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8TiresRollin
That passive steer should be an option. You know - the one I would not pick. Never seen a regular fixed tag wear out the tires any faster than the rest of the tires. just something else to go wrong!!!
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Keep looking. It happens.
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