Battery Questions

[Doc Mark]

I have been having problems with my HWH jacks that I think may be at least partially battery related. Let me set the stage:

Driving to our summer camp in Maine I could not get the jacks to raise the coach, and when they were attempting to do so, there was a burning electric smell that made me cancel the attempts. Went to Diamond RV in Mass. and they troubleshot the system, noting that all the battery connectors were loose and that when the jack cycle was in progress, the amp draw at the solenoid increased to 180 amps because there was insufficient voltage due to the loose cables - hence the smell -(their description - I know NOTHING about electrics). The tech also said that the 'batteries' were not fully charged and may have been damaged - drive the coach and see if they recharge. Did so but when I tried to extend the jacks here at camp, they came down, but wouldn't raise the coach, and the pump didn't sound as if it was running at full capacity. Same when I open the generator slide - it opens, but more slowly & pump sounds slower too. I am hooked up to a 50 amp shoreline service and have tried extending the jacks both on battery power alone & on shore power - same results.

So, my question is this: How do I know if I have a bad battery/s? Since they are all hooked up to each other (notice I did not use the terms series or parallel since I have not a clue which way they are). Can you isolate just one battery and test with a meter? Or does it need to be tested under load? I am 3 hours + away from any service techs and as the warranty is gone so this is all on me.

Thanks in advance!

Mark

[Perry White]

UI belive you should have a 40 amp fuse going to you HWH that shoud have blown with 180 amps going to it. Sounds like wiring mess up. Disconnect the ground side terminals on the batteries and check voltage across them. If you have four batteries they should all be the same.

[bigskymt]

Bad battery connections would never allow you to pull 180 amps so I'd question that. You should be measuring your voltage at both sides of the solenoid with and w/o load to determine where, of if, its dropping.
If your batteries are not sealed you can buy a hydrometer at any auto parts store and measure specific gravity of each cell.
Likewise you can use a DVM and measure voltage at each battery under load.
IMHO the tech that checked your system is less then qualified.

[RJay]

Mark,
When your either connected to shore power or running the generator measure the voltage at the batteries. This should be where the red and black battery cables from the coach connect to the batteries. The cables should be on two different batteries. The measured voltage should be between 13.2 to 13.8 volts depending on the degree of battery discharge and the variance between different converters/inverters. If the voltage is OK at the batteries check the voltage at the HWH pump motor. By the way, check all connections that may have been touched by Diamond RV. Let us know what you find.

[Lug_Nut]

It well may be a ground issue. The pump/motor assembly relies on getting the ground (-) through the mounting bolts. This often results in losing a good ground if the bolts become loose, which often happens. It is a better fix to install a ground cable from a solid part of the frame to oneof the mounting bolt locations. Make sure all mounting bolts are very tight.

Peter

[Doc Mark]

Weather is not conducive to work outside today & looks like more of the same for tomorrow so I'll have a go at it when I can. Thanks for all the suggestions RJay, Peter, Perry White & Bigskymt. I'll post what I find.

Mark

[GaryKD]

Hi Doc Mark,
In addition to the above mentioned items, I think your jacks are powered by the chassis batteries (not the coach batteries). It is important for you to know which set of batteries are powering the jacks. To determine this use the cut off switch to disable the chassis batteries. Try your jacks. This will tell you where the power is coming from. Now you can focus on the batteries providing the power. For me, I'd try something simple first.
1. Put a portable battery charger on the batteries in question for 24 hours.
2. Remove the charger and wait a couple of hours.
3. Take a VDC reading across the batteries to ensure they are fully charged. The reading should be 12.6 VDC or greater.
4. Try the jacks.
5. If the jacks work properly, it looks like you have a battery problem.
6. This is a PITA, but take the batteries in question to a battery store and have them load tested.

[Doc Mark]

Hi Gary - I am assuming the chassis batteries are on the circuit that the cutoff switch in the engine bay controls. So if I turn the switch to off, my chassis should be powerless but my coach (interior lights etc) should be still functioning? I really am a noob when it comes to electrics.

Mark

[GaryKD]

Hi Doc Mark,
You are correct. If the jacks are powered by the chassis batteries, when the disconnect is off, the jacks should have no power.

["007"]

If your batteries check out OK than you will need to check the grounds.
The solenoids will have a white ground wire for each one they may all run to a common ground point on your chassis frame or are tied together to one ground wire to chassis frame.
Your batteries will also have a heavy ground wire to chassis frame.
Make sure you have enough HWH fluid in the reservoir tank for jacks.
If you do not jacks will not operate correctly or at all.
The bell vent on tank has two lines on shaft and fluid should be between the lines.

Information on electric systems in RV.

[Iron Man]

Just finished replacing the main solenoid so I got pretty familiar with the HWH system through trouble shooting. Go to the website and download the and download the correct document, it is an exellent ftool for trouble shooting. Since the HWH system runs of the Chassis batteries try the jacks with the engine running. Since you have not had starting issues I don' t think it is a battery issue.I would check the followng

1. Check to make sure the fluid level is ok.
2 Check the nuts (2 large and 2 small) on both solenoids. Make sure there is no corrosion and the connections are tight. Cut the power off in the engine compartment first or sparks could fly.
3. All the white wires are grounds, follow them to the common ground screw pn the back of the pump. Check for corrosion and make sure all the grounds are tight.

If you are still having problems check the voltage at the 2 big lugs on each solenoid while working the jacks or the generator compartment. If it is below 12 volts you have a bad solenoid. It puzzles me that the jacks will work until they have a load and you smelled electrical burn smell. Sound like a loose connection or a bad solenoid that is not letting full voltage through, otherwise I would say the hydrolic fluid is low.

Lastly you can call or email HWH. They are great to work with, it may take a while for them to call you back, but the really will help and stay on the phone with you.

[Doc Mark]

Thanks to you all for the information. Here is where I am:

Voltage at chassis batteries (and yes Gary, the chassis batteries are the ones that control the jacks - I checked with switch on/off per your instructions) reads 12+ volts on my analog VOM. I can't get anymore specific because the dial just isn't that big to extrapolate.

Fluid in HWH reservoir is up to the fill line on dipstick.

Still no joy - jacks extend but won't raise the coach. No burning smell (hasn't been since Mass. repair)

New plan - check out all the grounds & check voltages across the solenoids (per Peter, Ironman & 007). And yes, Ironman I will definitely cut the switch first (but I probably wouldn't have if you hadn't said something!). I do have a spare solenoid fortunately.

Stay tuned.

["007"]

OK your jacks extend but when they hit the ground they stop?
Are you in AUTO or manual control when lifting?

[Doc Mark]

That is correct - the jacks extend until they hit the ground, then will not extend further.

I press the 'Store' button when I retract the jacks. They retract properly & at the normal rate of speed.

Mark