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Old 03-14-2019, 11:44 AM   #1
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BIRD and Battle Born Batteries - Need Help!

I decided to start another thread about this. I'm replacing my batteries with Battle Born lithiums. The BIRD controller won't deal with the lithium battery voltages, according to Battle Born's experience, and will leave the coach and chassis batteries connected when the house batteries are at or above 90% SOC.

Battle Born has developed it's own isolator. Here it is:



Here's my BIRD:

I'm thinking, that I can remove the leads from the BIRD controller and use them for this new BIM. I'm also 50/50 on whether I can use the two battery leads to connect the battery posts on the new BIM. But does the BIRD controller control other functions? And are those leads also used for charging back and forth between the house and chassis battery as well as the battery boost function? So confusing!!!

Also here is the BIRD wiring diagram from Newmar:



I tried Newmar and they sent me some info but it wasn't any different than the above diagram. I'm also going to try Battle Born and see if they can help. Until then, any help or direction would be appreciated.
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:59 PM   #2
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The Newmar diagram shows that the battery boost switch is connected by a separate line to the Isolation Relay. It is the bottom line on the left side of the diagram, below the blue oval. That will need to be moved to your new BIM. The "Ignition" lead from the Newmar BIRD will need to be moved to your new BIM. The only function the Newmar BIRD performs is to charge the house batteries from the alternator when the engine is running, and charge the chassis battery from the converter when the engine is not running and you have shore or generator power.

Switching everything to your BIM will eliminate the charging of the chassis battery by the converter. You might want to add a trickle charger to keep the chassis battery topped off when on shore or generator power.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:18 PM   #3
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I've since heard from Battle Born and Precision Circuits.

It looks like I can move the battery leads to the new BIM. Also appears I can then remove the isolator relay and the copper bus bar. The lead going to Coach Battery on the BIRD controller...well, we have no idea what that is but it seems that it might be power to the BIRD controller. The Relay wire on the BIRD goes to Signal on the new BIM. The Ignition wire goes to the same on the new BIM.

As for the converter not charging the chassis battery, I'm not sure I see that. The lead goes directly to the chassis battery and the new BIM should connect the batteries when the appropriate conditions are met, including when the chassis battery voltage indicates it needs charging and the converter is on. I can check, however to see if I'm getting voltage when those conditions are met. If so, I'd think the 10 watt panel on the roof would provide enough charge to keep the battery from draining. Isn't that it's purpose?
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:13 PM   #4
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If you move the leads to the new BIM and remove the bus bar, you will have no power to your house disconnect solenoid and no power to your house items.

You will need a cable to replace the bus bar OR slip the BIM under the bus bar in place of the isolation solenoid.

The red line I added is the bus bar circuit.Click image for larger version

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The BIM will handle bi-directional charging as long as the bus bar is in place.
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:36 PM   #5
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Oh is that the bus bar? Didn't understand that from the diagram. I see it now that you've pointed it out. Makes sense, I guess. What I don't get is it seems the chassis and house batteries are connected by the bus bar rendering the relay under there pointless. What am I not seeing?

Ignore that last question. Looked closely at the photo and other's I have an it only looks like the bus bar continues under both leads. It doesn't.

More edits:

Looks like I need a cable to go from the house battery cable to the battery cut off solenoid since getting that bus bar to fit on the new BIM would be difficult at best. Seems weird that it's the house battery but I see the connections and it makes sense. I assumed all those circuits connected to the solenoid were from the chassis battery but clearly they are not.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan McMartin View Post

As for the converter not charging the chassis battery, I'm not sure I see that. The lead goes directly to the chassis battery and the new BIM should connect the batteries when the appropriate conditions are met, including when the chassis battery voltage indicates it needs charging and the converter is on.
That is one of the functions performed by the Newmar BIRD. If it senses that the house batteries are sufficiently charged and that the chassis battery is low, it energizes the isolation relay to connect the chassis battery to the house batteries, and hence the converter output. If you new BIM will do that, then no worries. Not all battery isolators will do that.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:45 PM   #7
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Precision circuits makes one that might be a direct replacement LI-10041-260
Part # 00-10041-260
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 890ken View Post
That is one of the functions performed by the Newmar BIRD. If it senses that the house batteries are sufficiently charged and that the chassis battery is low, it energizes the isolation relay to connect the chassis battery to the house batteries, and hence the converter output. If you new BIM will do that, then no worries. Not all battery isolators will do that.
That's why I didn't see it. The new BIM will do that. All clear now. Thanks!
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
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Precision circuits makes one that might be a direct replacement LI-10041-260
Part # 00-10041-260
That's the one pictured above. Just trying to figure our how to integrate it into the BIRD's nest of wiring and such.
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:33 AM   #10
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The one in post #7 is for Lithium batteries. Is that the one you have? The standard one is #00-10021-000
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:45 AM   #11
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The one in post #7 is for Lithium batteries. Is that the one you have? The standard one is #00-10021-000
Yes, I've got the lithium version.
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:13 AM   #12
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Did it come with it?
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:34 AM   #13
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Give us a better pic of the entire buss bar and its connection to the Isolator Relay. Also, re-read the description from Intellitec or Precision as to its function. There are 2 devices in a BIRD system ... the controller and the isolation relay. The isolation relay performs a single function ... it connects the House and Chassis batteries together OR separates the House and Chassis batteries. When that occurs is controlled by the controller OR activation of the boost switch.


The confusing part of a BIRD is the "visual" ... there are lots of wires/cables that are connected to the isolation relay that don't have anything to do with the BIRD. Its a convenient place to connect cables together by using a post/nut on the relay.
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:15 PM   #14
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The BIM that the OP is using is a self contained Isolation control/solenoid.

No other electronics are needed. It only needs a signal for boost control and a switched ignition source. The bi-direcrional electronics are in it.

The original BIRD and Isolation solenoid is not needed.

Some isolation solenoids are sandwiched between disconnect solenoids with bus bars on both sides. It would be easier to leave it in place, disabled, just as a junction point for the cables and the ability to return it to factory.
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