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Old 02-28-2017, 05:44 AM   #57
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V3600 Trust me, it's not an abuse of powers. I spent 34 years in Law Enforcement and if I wanted to pull someone over, there are a hundred things going on that would give me the probable cause to do so. Weaving in your lane, not signaling, following too close, speeding (the biggest offense in CA when towing)

Here is a list of Calif. Drivers licenses and what they allow you to drive:
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/de..._htm/lic_chart
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Old 02-28-2017, 07:40 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheridany View Post
I never thought this would turn into such a debacle.

Yes I live in California.

I called CHP to ask them about the Ventana 4002 and they said yes, anything over 40ft starting at 40 ft moves into the class B non commercial license. So I asked if I could use my Ventana LE 3436 to test for the class B non commercial. They asked what license class do you have currently? I said C. What is the GVWR on your Ventana LE. I said 31,400. They said you are already driving a RV that weight more than 26,000 lbs and that is the max for a class C license. You need to move to a higher class or you will be cited if you are pulled over. I could not wait to get off the phone fast enough. I guess I am getting a Class B nevertheless. :banged:

That officer was totally wrong when it comes to house car weight and needs to be retrained on license requirements.

Here is the license class table directly off the DMV web site.

Note the following in that table:
Quote:
With a Basic Class C License:
  • a 2-axle vehicle with a GVWR of 26,000 pounds or less.
  • a 3-axle vehicle weighing 6,000 pounds gross or less.
  • a motorized scooter.
  • any housecar 40 feet or less.
  • A farmer or employee of a farmer may also drive:
  • any combination of vehicles with a Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) of 26,000 pounds or less if used exclusively in agricultural operations and it is not for hire or compensation.
As for taking the test in your Ventana LE 3436 if it's not over 40' then no you can't take the test in it. You've always got to take the test in a vehicle that meets the requirement of the class license your going for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicia Tom View Post
I looked up requirement for class b non commercial. and it's only for 40' and longer. Class b commercial states any vehicle with a gvwr over 26,000 lbs. requires this license.
With "Housecars" having an exception to the over 26,000 lbs. rule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyond View Post
In California, CVC 12804.10 states that anyone with a class C license can drive a house car of 40 feet in length or less without obtaining the Non-commercial class B license. This supersedes the normal class C limit of the 26,000 lbs.

This section goes on to describe what house car requires the non-com class B as one over 40' in length, excluding safety devices and safety bumpers. So just measure the BOX do not include ladders and mirrors.
Here are quotes of the CVC.

Quote:
12804.10.
  • (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a person issued a class C license under paragraph (3) of subdivision (b) of Section 12804.9 may drive any house car of 40 feet in length or less without obtaining a noncommercial class B driver s license with house car endorsement as described in subdivision (b).
  • (b) Any person seeking to drive any house car over 40 feet in length, excluding safety devices and safety bumpers, shall obtain a noncommercial class B driver s license with house car endorsement as described in this subdivision...
Notwithstanding means that no other provision of the law overrides this section so the fact that a Class C can't drive a vehicle over 26,000 lbs. doesn't matter as it's excluded.

Safety bumpers are described in CVC 35400 (b) (5) and can be up to 1' in front and back.

Side note: I've not found anything in the code for house cars that covers a bike rack on the front or back along with any other carrier on the rear being excluded in the overall length measurements. I did find that for trucks and busses so it's something that needs to be checked with the CHP commercial devision since they are generally the most up to date on these things.

I've included 12804.9.
Quote:
12804.9

(b)(3) Class C includes the following:
  • (C) A house car of 40 feet in length or less.
  • (E) A house car of 40 feet in length or less or a vehicle towing another vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 pounds or less, including when a tow dolly is used.  A person driving a vehicle may not tow another vehicle in violation of Section 21715.
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Old 02-28-2017, 07:50 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by LJowdy View Post
V3600 Trust me, it's not an abuse of powers. I spent 34 years in Law Enforcement and if I wanted to pull someone over, there are a hundred things going on that would give me the probable cause to do so. Weaving in your lane, not signaling, following too close, speeding (the biggest offense in CA when towing)

Here is a list of Calif. Drivers licenses and what they allow you to drive:
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/de..._htm/lic_chart
Technically your correct but we both know that some bad officers, I'm in no way accusing anyone here of this, pull people over by making up something that normally you can't prove they made up. This is why one should always run a dash cam, front and back is best, so if pulled over you have might some proof that you did nothing wrong. Video evidence can dispute PC in many cases.

That said in CA the CHP, and I fairly sure it's only the CHP, can pull someone over at anytime to do a safety check. This has been part of CA law for years.
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Old 02-28-2017, 08:37 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by LJowdy View Post
...
If something adverse should happen and it wasn't your fault, driving without the correct license could cause criminal and or civil issues. Your insurance company may choose to not pay out or you could be held liable for a collision that wasn't your fault
..
I understand your frustration, but these noted comments are far from correct when dealing with insurance. No insurance company can deny a claim just because a driver did not have a 'correct' license amendment for a state they may or may not live in. If the insurance company issued a policy, with this length of motorcoach insured, then they are bound to pay a claim, period. An example is motorcycle insurance, where a driver is required by most every state to have a 'Motorcycle Endorsement' on their driver license. Many new motorcycle drivers do not know, or understand, this requirement, but ride anyway, even with insurance. The insurance company for a new policy typically asks whether the driver has a motorcycle endorsement, and if not, they request that the driver endeavor to meet the requirement within 30 days. The insurance company will still issue the policy, EVEN THOUGH the driver has not yet met the requirements of the state for proper licensing.
As far as criminal and/or civil issues, It's also highly unlikely that it would be anymore than a small fine or warning.
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Old 02-28-2017, 09:13 AM   #61
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Mr. T Unfortunately you're wrong. So many policies, regardless of what the salesman said, have a clause that requires you to be a lawfully operating your vehicle. They will pay the liability but may not pay the comprehensive.
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Old 02-28-2017, 02:01 PM   #62
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Thanks for the clarifications

Thank you for all the replies. That certainly clears up the muddy mess this topic can generate. Now I have to decide on the gamble whether to move forward with Ventana 4002 and take the test. The specs for the Ventana is 40'10 which for all intent and purposes is over 40 feet. I would hate to not pass the test for whatever reason and not be able to use until I did pass it. You just never know with the examiners. I will have to think about that.
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Old 02-28-2017, 02:09 PM   #63
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Mr. T Unfortunately you're wrong. So many policies, regardless of what the salesman said, have a clause that requires you to be a lawfully operating your vehicle. They will pay the liability but may not pay the comprehensive.
sorry, but as an agent/agency owner for over 2 decades, I've never seen or heard of a situation where an insurance company did NOT pay all of the required coverages for a claim, NO MATTER what the 'license' of the driver was, or was not, at the time.
...now, they may later non-renew, or even cancel the policy, but the claim WILL BE PAID.

ask any of the millions of lawyers country-wide...
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Old 02-28-2017, 02:39 PM   #64
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Quick question...if someone did not have the correct license and caused an accident would the person who was hit be able to take them to court for not having the correct endorsment and sue them for everything they have.
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:27 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by sheridany View Post
Thank you for all the replies. That certainly clears up the muddy mess this topic can generate. Now I have to decide on the gamble whether to move forward with Ventana 4002 and take the test. The specs for the Ventana is 40'10 which for all intent and purposes is over 40 feet. I would hate to not pass the test for whatever reason and not be able to use until I did pass it. You just never know with the examiners. I will have to think about that.
First talk to Newmar factory to find out how it's licensed in CA. It could be that they use the safety bumper exception and call 5" front and rear as bumpers. After all there isn't much in the rear cap but air and insulation. If not then you'll have to take the Class B test.

If it didn't have a tag axel I would not have worried about it as its slim and none, and slim is on vacation, that you would ever be checked as to length since you never see a non-tag coach over 40'. However since it is a tag the chances do go up considerably.

BTW, there are some nice 40' Foretravels, some with a tag and some without, in the 2007-10 area from Motorhomes of Texas you could consider if you don't want to buy new.
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:42 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by LJowdy View Post
V3600 Trust me, it's not an abuse of powers. I spent 34 years in Law Enforcement and if I wanted to pull someone over, there are a hundred things going on that would give me the probable cause to do so. Weaving in your lane, not signaling, following too close, speeding (the biggest offense in CA when towing)

Here is a list of Calif. Drivers licenses and what they allow you to drive:
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/de..._htm/lic_chart
I got pulled over by AZ DPS because "i wouldn't pass him and there are a lot of stolen cars on this stretch of I-10. A clear violation of my rights as I had done nothing wrong. I was pissed. Oh, and at the time I was a sgt with Tucson PD.
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:49 PM   #67
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sorry, but as an agent/agency owner for over 2 decades, I've never seen or heard of a situation where an insurance company did NOT pay all of the required coverages for a claim, NO MATTER what the 'license' of the driver was, or was not, at the time.
...now, they may later non-renew, or even cancel the policy, but the claim WILL BE PAID.

ask any of the millions of lawyers country-wide...
My Farmer's agent told me the same thing, so long as your policy is in good standing they have to cover you. Of course this doesn't prevent a civil law suit by the other party.
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Old 02-28-2017, 06:53 PM   #68
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Quick question...if someone did not have the correct license and caused an accident would the person who was hit be able to take them to court for not having the correct endorsement and sue them for everything they have.
YES You can bring about a law suit for just about anything.
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Old 02-28-2017, 07:10 PM   #69
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I understand your frustration, but these noted comments are far from correct when dealing with insurance. No insurance company can deny a claim just because a driver did not have a 'correct' license amendment for a state they may or may not live in. If the insurance company issued a policy, with this length of motorcoach insured, then they are bound to pay a claim, period. An example is motorcycle insurance, where a driver is required by most every state to have a 'Motorcycle Endorsement' on their driver license. Many new motorcycle drivers do not know, or understand, this requirement, but ride anyway, even with insurance. The insurance company for a new policy typically asks whether the driver has a motorcycle endorsement, and if not, they request that the driver endeavor to meet the requirement within 30 days. The insurance company will still issue the policy, EVEN THOUGH the driver has not yet met the requirements of the state for proper licensing.
As far as criminal and/or civil issues, It's also highly unlikely that it would be anymore than a small fine or warning.


Interesting. Recently I was at my local trailer supply shop. The owner, a friend, showed me a Tiffen that had been involved in a collision. The owner of the Tiffen had his claim denied because he was at fault and didn't have a non commercial class B license.

Maybe there's more to the story, who knows???

You know what else is interesting?? I started this Thread to help those planning on taking the Non Comm. Class B test. I never expected the thread drift to go on for 5 pages...
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Old 03-01-2017, 06:55 AM   #70
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Interesting. Recently I was at my local trailer supply shop. The owner, a friend, showed me a Tiffen that had been involved in a collision. The owner of the Tiffen had his claim denied because he was at fault and didn't have a non commercial class B license.

Maybe there's more to the story, who knows???

You know what else is interesting?? I started this Thread to help those planning on taking the Non Comm. Class B test. I never expected the thread drift to go on for 5 pages...
Drivers license, Wal Mart, and Montana LLC threads generally take on a life of their own. Too many different opinions to get a good answer from them.
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