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Old 08-04-2018, 04:45 PM   #1
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CCC - what's counted in?

Hello again,


I'm trying to get a better idea of just how much/how little stuff we can carry in our (soon to be) new to us 2007 Kountry Star.


The CCC is listed as 3,173 pounds.



Obviously, things have been changed since it left the factory - a washing machine was added, the fridge was changed, etc.



I note that different RV manufacturers include different things in the CCC. With Newmar, do we have to include the weight of the fresh water tank, i.e. deduct the weight of the water from the available carrying weight?


Any help in getting this figured out would be GREATLY appreciated.


Thank you


Nic
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Old 08-04-2018, 07:47 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vavroom View Post
Hello again,


I'm trying to get a better idea of just how much/how little stuff we can carry in our (soon to be) new to us 2007 Kountry Star.


The CCC is listed as 3,173 pounds.



Obviously, things have been changed since it left the factory - a washing machine was added, the fridge was changed, etc.



I note that different RV manufacturers include different things in the CCC. With Newmar, do we have to include the weight of the fresh water tank, i.e. deduct the weight of the water from the available carrying weight?


Any help in getting this figured out would be GREATLY appreciated.


Thank you


Nic

This is what my notes say...


Capacity Ratings Where the confusion really begins!
  • CCC Cargo Carrying Capacity
    • The GVWR minus the UVW, the SCWR, the weight of a full tank of propane, and the weight of all fresh water in the system including a full fresh water tank and a full water heater.
  • NCC Net Carrying Capacity
    • The GVWR minus the UVW
    • The maximum capacity of all passengers, belongings, tanks, supplies, etc.
    • This rating is also known as payload capacity
  • OCCC Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity
    • The GVWR minus the UVW and propane weight.
    • The maximum capacity of all occupants including driver, belongings, tanks, supplies, etc.
    • This rating clarifies the driver for motorized units
  • SCWR Sleeping Capacity Weight Rating
    • The number of sleeping positions multiplied by 154 pounds.

So you can fill your fresh water, fill your LP tank, fill your hot water tank and put as many 154 pound people in as you have sleeping positions for. after you do this you can still put 3173 pounds into the coach


BUT!
You can only use these numbers as a comparative reference!
The CCC number is a perfect case scenario where the weight you add magically balances onto the front and rear axles to match their specific capacities.

You need to get the unit corner weighed after loading to truly determine whether you are operating safely within the specs of the vehicle.


According to my notes, Part timers carry around 2000 pounds of stuff and full timers around 3000 pounds but my notes don't say whether that is based on CCC or NCC
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Old 08-04-2018, 09:52 PM   #3
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Which floor plan are you looking at? Have you had a chance to get it weighed? Getting it weighed is really your best way to figure this all out. Even if you can't get 4 corners getting individual axle weights will be a big help.

BTW...if the refer was changed from an RV to residential you might find that wasn't a big deal. We did that on our previous coach and the residential was within 20# of the Norcold.

The brochure NCC numbers are based on stock production models. I think your CCC numbers are from the weight sticker found in one of the kitchen cabinet door. You will need to compare the equipment on original window sticker with what you have now. That will help you know if there are significant changes to the factory weight.

BTW...even my current coach carries a CCC instead of NCC. However, their use of CCC looks more like NCC and includes propane weight but we don't have propane. To further confuse things the brochure uses NCC. Go figure...literally. LOL

Our posted CCC is 6599#. I have a spreadsheet to do a bunch of OCD calculations and it says I use 3279# of that CCC. That includes:

1. Full 150 Gal of fuel.
2. 2 passengers whose combined weight is 400#.
3. 1 German Shepherd Dog weighing 95#
4. Full fresh water, empty black & grey tanks.
5. All the rest of our stuff.

Next in importance to your GVWR is your front axle weight rating. In a diesel pusher you will more likely exceed your front AWR before you exceed your GVWR. Since my 2 DSDPs had a tag axle we were never in danger of exceeding the drive or tag AWR. I wouldn't say the rear AWR is immune but I've not heard others say it was a primary problem.

I would suggest that you might not get more than 75% of the CCC before you max out an axle. I think that should keep things workable for you. Things that might improve your situation compared to mine (and my estimate) are smaller your smaller fuel tank and shorter wheel base.
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Old 08-04-2018, 10:12 PM   #4
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When we were ordering our '02 DSDP I noted that the CCC was over 5,500#'s. We didn't get the real tile floor nor the washer/dryer. When the rig came in it only had 630 #'s of capacity before it was overloaded and the front was already overloaded by 50#'s before we loaded anything or got into the seats. Don't believe the estimates in the brochures!
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:40 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vavroom View Post
Hello again,


I'm trying to get a better idea of just how much/how little stuff we can carry in our (soon to be) new to us 2007 Kountry Star.


The CCC is listed as 3,173 pounds.



Obviously, things have been changed since it left the factory - a washing machine was added, the fridge was changed, etc.



I note that different RV manufacturers include different things in the CCC. With Newmar, do we have to include the weight of the fresh water tank, i.e. deduct the weight of the water from the available carrying weight?


Any help in getting this figured out would be GREATLY appreciated.


Thank you


Nic

All right here goes. I know everybody will hate me for saying this but don't worry about it. Just don't bring your extensive bowling ball collection along.

"in other words" Just be sensible. We have been RV'ing since the early eighties and have had 5 Class A units, all gassers and only worried about it once. That is when I found out the only way I was going to stay with in the weight limits was to leave my wife at home. Then who would cook and wax the coach????

If we were talking about a pull trailer of even a fifth wheel then that is a different matter and weight is much more important. We have had a few of those including a class B and C.

A Class A just dosent care that much if there are a few extra pounds in it. Besides I would not be surprised if more that a few people were overloaded and just did not know it.

Don't make RV'ing a job, go out there and have fun.
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:57 AM   #6
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All right here goes. I know everybody will hate me for saying this but don't worry about it. Just don't bring your extensive bowling ball collection along.

...

Don't make RV'ing a job, go out there and have fun.
Don't hate you but...

Let me say that I agree that the wheels won't fall off or that you are a rolling accident waiting for a place if you are a "few" pounds over a GVWR or AWR. What I do disagree with is just ignoring it without knowledge of it all. One should know the rules before they bastardize them.

There are 3 important things that one should know. Actual:

1. GVWR I guarantee that exceeding GVWR even by a small amount means one is exceeding an AWR or tire weight rating. The only exception to my "guarantee" that I know of is where the combined AWRs are less than the GVWR. My coach Freightliner XCR chassis is an example of that. However, I know of many gasser coach chassis where the GVWR is LESS than the combined AWRs.

2. AWR Exceeding an AWR (especially the front axle on a DP or rear axle on a gasser) can cause excess weight on a tire/tire set.

3. Max tire weight rating, IMO, should NEVER be exceeded.

IMPORTANT: Unless someone takes the time to go to the scales how will they know if there is a problem?

Of course, if you follow my logic of items 1, 2 & 3 you should see that it is probably difficult to remain within a max tire weight rating if you exceed either GVWR or AWR.

You seem to imply that it is never ending "work". It really isn't. Yes, at first it could take some effort but not that much. I just transitioned coaches and did it with 2 weighings. The first was to get a feel for a realistic "empty" weight and estimate corner weights for loaded tire pressure needs. I fully admit this wasn't even a necessary weighing but I wanted it. The second was the more involved "corner" weighing after the transfer was made with full water and fuel. This was to validate we were within engineering limits and set tire pressures.

Digressing a little bit to my previous coach...I basically did the same as I did with my new coach. After that I would go to the scale once a year to see if there was any significant change. No big deal. Once we did the early ownership "work" the annual reweigh wasn't a big deal at all.

BTW, getting corner weights can be extremely helpful in getting the suspension set correctly. If one finds out that the left to right and/or front rear balances are significantly off, they can look at weight distribution along with ride height settings to correct/reduce the imbalance(s).

So, YES...it is a bit of work at first. Once this is done after the coach has reached a "mature" weight it isn't really much work at all.
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