Cheap Performance Enhancement For Your Diesel

[Lug_Nut]

The piping between the charge air cooler and the intake manifold on most coaches are exposed metal 3" tubing. This tubing is exposed not only to the surrounding engine heat but also it passes within an 1/8" of an engine coolant pipe. This increases the intake air somewhat prior to entering the intake manifold. Using pipe insulation and plastic ties, you can reduce this heat transfer somewhat by insulating the entire pipe run. The cooler the air the more air that can be forced into the cylinder chambers. That spells better efficiency and more power.
Total cost of this project is about $12 or so. I have photos of the finished look, but don't know how to publish.

Caution: This modification may lead to increased tire wear from spinning the tires off stoplights.

Peter

[VACMAN]

Lug_Nut, a real good way to post a lot of pics,: Go to www.photobucket.com At this site you can make an account (free) then upload pics..You can see how after you upload your pics, you can name your acct. then just post the link on here and when a member goes to that link, you pics pop up.. I do this when I sell stuff. In a magazine I can only post 1 pic. so I post the 1 pic and the web. link to my photobucket link and bingo they can se 10 to 20 pics.. Vacman

[Gary - K7GLD]

WELL....

UMMmmmmmmm....

Maybe not the "tire shredder" improvement you suggest or hope for...

Fact is, the volume of air flowing in those sections of the typical turbo-charged diesel intercooler ducting is vast and rapid enough that merely providing any sort of insulation over so short a path, is rather trivial in the overall scheme of things.

A better approach, is to eliminate as many twists, turns and obstructions to airflow as possible - some OEM intakes are restricted, but even that approach delivers minimal returns unless there are VERY serious OEM restrictions.

How would *I* know?

Partly because on my turbocharged Cummins diesel in my '02 Dodge, I went from this:



to this:



And then checked "performance gains" on one of these:



One of those dynoes provides hard PROOF that often makes the 'ol "seat-O-pants meter" look sorta tilted outta reality...

NOW, I've personally been down this turbo diesel "performance road" for over 20 years now, I've DOUBLED the rear wheel HP and torque on the truck pictured - and by now, pretty well know what works, and what doesn't.

I made the above switch primarily for appearance, and had NO illusions as to "performance gains" by improving the intake air tract on my truck by that fancy piece of stainless tubing, even though it provided far better cross-section and improved airflow as compared to the OEM piece also pictured, and that was just as well, because as the dyno proved, there weren't any! Nor would merely insulating a similar short run of tubing.

Wanna make changes just for the sport of it? Fine - no problem - but don't worry about your rear tires, they're perfectly safe...

[Route 66]

• Click reply and scroll down to bottom of text box.
• Click "go advanced" add text to message window and then scroll down.
• Click "Manage attachments" A separate window will pop up.
• Click "browse" Then select the file to be uploaded. Be sure that the photo is appropriately sized. 620 x 620 pixels (or smaller) and no more than 100K. Forums software will automatically reduce the size, but smaller size photos will upload much faster. You may select several photos to upload at the same time by repeating the last step.
• Click "Upload" After pics have loaded close the pop-up window
• Click "submit reply" to mount the text of your message - photos will automatically appear at the bottom of your post.

A

How to embed an image stored on another site:
You can do this by using image tags. Upload the image to a service like imageshack and then copy the URL of the image and put that between [IMG] tags. That will work well, as long as the host site stays in business and doesn't disable your image for overuse of bandwidth etc.

You can also paste in the location of a photo stored here in a photo gallery.

To do this: Paste the url of the image into your post. Then add the following code on either side of the url (with no extra spaces):

[IMG]url here[/IMG]

The image will appear where the url was in your text.

__________________

[Lug_Nut]

Thanks for the description of how to put up a photo. I'm going to be on the road for the next few days so I will get it done when I arrive home. Thanks again.

Peter

[Lug_Nut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary - K7GLD WELL.... UMMmmmmmmm.... Maybe not the "tire shredder" improvement you suggest or hope for... Fact is, the volume of air flowing in those sections of the typical turbo-charged diesel intercooler ducting is vast and rapid enough that merely providing any sort of insulation over so short a path, is rather trivial in the overall scheme of things. A better approach, is to eliminate as many twists, turns and obstructions to airflow as possible - some OEM intakes are restricted, but even that approach delivers minimal returns unless there are VERY serious OEM restrictions. How would *I* know? Partly because on my turbocharged Cummins diesel in my '02 Dodge, I went from this: to this: And then checked "performance gains" on one of these: One of those dynoes provides hard PROOF that often makes the 'ol "seat-O-pants meter" look sorta tilted outta reality... NOW, I've personally been down this turbo diesel "performance road" for over 20 years now, I've DOUBLED the rear wheel HP and torque on the truck pictured - and by now, pretty well know what works, and what doesn't. I made the above switch primarily for appearance, and had NO illusions as to "performance gains" by improving the intake air tract on my truck by that fancy piece of stainless tubing, even though it provided far better cross-section and improved airflow as compared to the OEM piece also pictured, and that was just as well, because as the dyno proved, there weren't any! Nor would merely insulating a similar short run of tubing. Wanna make changes just for the sport of it? Fine - no problem - but don't worry about your rear tires, they're perfectly safe...

Gary, I disagree with you on this one. Today's big diesels have no problems of air intake flow. We are not talking about a high reving PowerStroke or small "B" chipped diesel engine. (No insult to small diesels, I'm just referring to high RPM units) My ISM tops out at 2100 rpm and is usually running 1300 or so. It produces over 37 PSI boast, so volume and flow appear no issue.
The air charge cooler is an important piece of the puzzle. It reduces the temperature of the air after it passes through the turbo. If you were to cover up that section of the rad, you would not notice it in perfpormance, but you sure would in overall efficiency. Additionally, if the intake temperature ever reached within 20 degrees F. of the engine temperature auto derating would take place.
So, with the air charge cooler operating it helps to maintain the intake temperature. Once it has left the cooler it must travel through the pipe that delivers it to the intake manifold. Having that pipe exposed to 180 degrees or so does transfer a liitle temperature. After all, this is not a header assembly on a hot rod. If you can maintain as close as you can to delivering the air at the same temperature as it exited the cooler, you will get the best efficiency. One, two or three degrees can make a difference.

P.S. You did know the tire burner was a joke, right?

Peter

[greystroke]

Thanks for the suggestion. Since I monitor my intake manifold temp with my VMSpc I should notice some difference. If not, well I like to fool around anyway. No harm done for a few bucks.

[Gary - K7GLD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lug_Nut Gary, I disagree with you on this one. Today's big diesels have no problems of air intake flow. We are not talking about a high reving PowerStroke or small "B" chipped diesel engine. (No insult to small diesels, I'm just referring to high RPM units) My ISM tops out at 2100 rpm and is usually running 1300 or so. It produces over 37 PSI boast, so volume and flow appear no issue. The air charge cooler is an important piece of the puzzle. It reduces the temperature of the air after it passes through the turbo. If you were to cover up that section of the rad, you would not notice it in perfpormance, but you sure would in overall efficiency. Additionally, if the intake temperature ever reached within 20 degrees F. of the engine temperature auto derating would take place. So, with the air charge cooler operating it helps to maintain the intake temperature. Once it has left the cooler it must travel through the pipe that delivers it to the intake manifold. Having that pipe exposed to 180 degrees or so does transfer a liitle temperature. After all, this is not a header assembly on a hot rod. If you can maintain as close as you can to delivering the air at the same temperature as it exited the cooler, you will get the best efficiency. One, two or three degrees can make a difference. P.S. You did know the tire burner was a joke, right? Peter

YUP - I knew the tire shredder bit was a joke... So was my comment!

As to diesels, RPM range and boost - my Cummins in my truck turns about 1600 RPM at cruise, runs about 32 PSI boost at max - and redlines at 3000 RPM - not a radical difference between mine and yours.

Believe what you want - but instead of eventually getting back to us with a "Seat-O-pants" guestimate of improvement, such as "it FEELS lots stronger", or "I got XX% better MPG on my 200 mile test run than what I got over that same route a year ago" - how about an actual dyno run for proof - and if the discussion turns to MPG - be sure to have several thousand miles of "before/after" documentation to level the playing field...

Insulating a 36 inch piece of pipe in HOPES of meaningful reduction in intake air temp, is much like placing a single ice cube next to a fire hose running full blast, in hopes of significantly reducing the temp of water flow...

BUT - ya know, actual PROOF of temp reduction in the intake isn't all that hard - I've run actual test runs, using commonly available inside/outside thermometers to actually SEE what different mods can do to intake temps - here's a pic showing such a test using 2 different sensors to verify intake and bypassed diesel fuel temps in a Cummins fuel injection pump after mods:



I am NOT guessing here, or shooting from the hip - I've actually tested this stuff extensively, over thousands of miles, not on hi-reving gasser hotrods, but on a diesel quite similar to yours - and I'm telling you, you're wasting your time if you expect significant - or even MEASURABLE improvement...

BUT, there's NO problem at least trying new stuff, more power to ya...

[Iron Man]

i know this does not fall into he "cheap" category but look at this for ISM/ISX.
http://www.scheiddiesel.com/display_part/2690.php

I was wondering does anybody know of anyone who has used something similiar on the big Cummins engines?

[racer0624]

While on this subject..... What about a cloth-high flow air filter simular to K&N to get more air in and an Aeroturbine muffler to get exhaust out more efficently? Any positive effect on performance? Cummins position of the aftermarket mods?

[Lug_Nut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Man i know this does not fall into he "cheap" category but look at this for ISM/ISX. http://www.scheiddiesel.com/display_part/2690.php I was wondering does anybody know of anyone who has used something similiar on the big Cummins engines?

John, This looks like it is aimed at the trucking industry. These engines in trucks are far less HP than that of an RV application. Therefore one might think that we already have similar already. Just a thought.

Peter

[cowboy2]

on my DSDP 04 freight chasse C7 engine the intake has 4-5ft of pipe and filter in take is on inside of the filter, clean air on the outside,so it has a resticted capacity,plus the long length of pipe,with 3 turns,and a real job to change and you buy the whole canister with the filter sealed inside, has any boby made a modification to system

[Lug_Nut]

Well, after the add-on, I ran the 500 miles home. and as Gary K7GLD said, I don't believe this enhancement made all this difference. I normally get 6.8 to a maximum of 7.4 MPG, 5.8 being the worst ever and 7.8 being the best ever over a 500 mile run.
The wind was 5 to 8 MPH from the NE. The trip was NNE, N, E and then south. I was not towing but had full fuel and water. Coach was loaded. Speed was 56 to 59 MPH primarily and in rolling hilly areas. For much of the run I was in 5th gear, though I tried to accellerate breifly to 59 to make the shift to 6th. To my delight I got 8.1 MPG.
Now, again, this can not be from this modification, but I tried to upload a photo

I stopped along the way and put my finger under the insulation. The pipe was surprisingly cool, at least cooler than body temperature. The insulation was shielding the blowing hot air that filled the engine compartment. So, regardless of the speed of the air inside the tube, I had reduced the heat exchange that would have to have taken place with the heat outside the tubing.

End result.............. I'm pleased with the modification whether it helps or not.

Peter

[RVDude]

lug could be one of the very few folks actually running a Top Fuel ISM.

You see, if he ports (pun intended) a certain cabinet in his rig directly into his newly insultated CAC intake he'll be running a true alky fueled ISM, albeit vapors alone. Now, since the Dr. of Mixology only imbibes with Top Shelf products in that cabinet we have to make the leap and consider his rig not just your every day alky ISM but indeed a true Top Fuel ISM. Vroooom!

Light 'em up Peter!!!!!!!!!!