Cheater Box and EMS

[harleyman134]

We were at a campsite over the weekend that only had 30 amp service and no sewage hookup, we were able to enjoy ourselves with the limited services. The trouble is the wife loved the site and wants to go back. Due to the small size of the site the cg manager put us in two sites (he only charged us for one). Since I could only run one a/c with my 30 amp service I'm thinking if we go back I'll buy a cheater box and hook up to both 30 amp poles we have access to so I can run both a/c's. If I do buy a cheater box will my Intelletec EMS allow me to pull more than 30 amps in the mh and I assume the breaker box is "balanced" so I won't be pulling more than 30 amps from one "site" without throwing a breaker in that site. Any input into my idea would be appreciated.

PS. This is on a 2005 MADP 4304

Thanks

Sonny

[RJay]

The "cheater box" will allow you 60 amps capacity where a 50 amp service provides 100 amps. Your EMS has no effect on how much load you draw and will not interfere with what you plan. However be aware that you may get 120 volt on each live leg but 0 volts between them. Again, this should not interfere with what you plan but don't expect 240 volts between the two live legs if you don't get it. It will allow you to operate just as you would on a 50 amp hookup but only on a slightly reduced capacity. Just limit your load accordingly. Good Luck!

[Luv2go]

Note if the EMS does not see 240V between the legs it will be fooled into thinking you have 30A service and will shed loads accordingly. Intellitec EMS systems determine if service is 50A by looking for approximately 240V between L1 and L2.

Whether the two pedestals are wired with different phases (so you would see 240V) is a crap shoot, I know of one CG where all the neighboring sites are fed off the same 120V line, and others which are fed off different lines. If I were you I'd buy the cheater and hope the CG is wired like the latter.

[RJay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luv2go Note if the EMS does not see 240V between the legs it will be fooled into thinking you have 30A service and will shed loads accordingly. Intellitec EMS systems determine if service is 50A by looking for approximately 240V between L1 and L2. Whether the two pedestals are wired with different phases (so you would see 240V) is a crap shoot, I know of one CG where all the neighboring sites are fed off the same 120V line, and others which are fed off different lines. If I were you I'd buy the cheater and hope the CG is wired like the latter.

The last conversation I had with the folks at Progressive was that the EMS doesn't test for voltage level between the phases, only if voltage is present on each live leg.

I had this discussion in conjunction with campgrounds upgrading their facilities with a 120/208 volt system instead of the traditional 120/240 system. However I was told that they are trying to incorporate this feature in future units but no time frame was given.

[wa8yxm]

The "Cheater boxes" may or may not work with your EMS depending on the two sites you plug into.. NOTE: they will not work on a single site, so this would likely be a one time use purchase (in short I'm advising against it)

EMS decides "30 or 50" based on the presence of 240 vac (Well more than xxx vac) across the L-1 L-2 leads.. If both of the sites you plug into are L-1 (or L-2) then it will read it as a 30 amp site and nothing you can do about it.

And if you try to use it as they imply, (30 + 20 on one site) it WILL trip the GFCI, if it does not the GFCI is faulty.

What will work? http://www.psrv.net (NOTE SITE NOT WORKING AS I TYPE THIS)

This device "Splits off" one of your air conditioners (normally the rear one) and puts it on a circuit all by itself, No GFCI issues, no "Same leg" proglems.. Well, to put it simple NO PROBLEMS. I should know.. it's how I'm keeping cool as I type.

I got an Emergency E-Mail (.org) message today that several sites are down due to criminals hacking the Domain Name Servers...> Looks like this may be one of them.. If you wish I can describe the product well enough a skilled technician can build it, Very simple, I did it myself.

[Norm4015]

A campground we use often provides me with a cheater box to connect to two 30 amp outlets. It only provides 60 amps total instead of 100 amps like a 50 amp outlet gives, but it works great and my Surge Guard has no problem with the cheater box.

[Route 66]

I'm not sure what you're saying here.

The PI EMS does indeed test for high or low voltage on each leg (L1 or L2) and will cut off high or low voltage. It may not check for 240V from L1 to L2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJay The last conversation I had with the folks at Progressive was that the EMS doesn't test for voltage level between the phases, only if voltage is present on each live leg.

[harleyman134]

Thanks for the replies, you guys have got me to "thinking" and according to my wife I "think" just enough to be dangerous. If I'm reading all your response's correctly I think my EMS looks for 240 volts between L1 and L2 to go into "sleep" mode, if my EMS doesn't see 240 volts it will "limit" my mh's total amp draw to 30 amps. So I'm thinking if I did get a "cheater box" and hook up to two 30 amp camp sites it would be a "crap shoot" as to whether I get 240 at L1 and L2, I guess it depends if the two sites are in phase or not. I hope I'm wrong on my "thinking" so if I'm wrong please let me know.

PS. This EMS system is causing me to do a lot of "thinking", I bought a little 2000k Honda generator to run some fans, light and battery charger when I'm dry camping and it the EMS would not pass the current until I did a neurtal to ground "bond" at the generator. Heck owning a MH has caused me to do a lot of "thinking"

[wa8yxm]

There are two different devices confuse here:

AN EMS checks for voltage L-1 to L-2 (Between the legs) if they are the same voltage (no difference or low difference) then it assumes 30 amps.

A power line guard (Surge supressor) checks for low/high voltage on each leg, it does not care if there is a difference between the two legs. Two different devices doign tow different jobs and thus running two different tests

EMS may or may not work with a cheater box depending on if the two sites are the same leg or not.. However as I said, the PSRV device will since it puts the 2nd A/C on a completly isolated circuit, it will also work on a 30/20 box, since it will not trip the GFCI less you have a problem (had that last week,, fixed it too, fast, it was hot out)

[RJay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Route 66 I'm not sure what you're saying here. The PI EMS does indeed test for high or low voltage on each leg (L1 or L2) and will cut off high or low voltage. It may not check for 240V from L1 to L2.

Absolutely right. It will check for high and low voltage on each of the incoming live legs. What it doesn't do is check the voltage level between the two incoming live legs, no L1-L2 checks. So when measuring across the live legs you could read 240, 220 or 208 and the PI EMS would not know the difference.

[harleyman134]

Way8yxm, I looked around on the net and found some info on your PSRV device and it looks like it would probably work. I still need to research it more but the install might be above my pay grade but would make a good winter project. Since this is the only campground I'm really interested in finding a solution to my problem I don't know where I'll put this project on my to do list. Next time I go to this campground I'll carry an extension cord and my meter, get my extension cords close enough to reasure the voltage across the to hot legs and see if I get 240 volts and if I do, I'll try the cheater box first.

[Ed S]

I would have one ac wired so that you can run it as you do now, gen or 50 amp or off its own shore power. I did that with my 3rd ac and so glad I did. Works great when I want or need it.

[wa8yxm]

Install is basically simple.. You find junction box with a wire that runs to the (Usually) rear air conditoner and nowhere else (The main power wire for that A/C.. You "Break" (Disconnect) the junction in that box, splice in the PSRV device's pigtail and then attach the main power lead to the PSRV's "inlet" (LIke an outlet but .. Well the outlet end of an extension cord plugs into it) then pick up a 12ga Extension cord from Lowes or Home Depot or... Well I like the ones from Sears or K-mart with the locking outlet ends.

And that's all there is too it.. The PSRV device is a junction box with an inlet and breaker and a pigtal with outlet, That's all folks. Basically a poor man's transfer switch for one 20 amp load.

Side benefit/effect.. Since you instll this device on the SERVICE side of your rig.. If you ever need 120vac on that side for a short time.> Say to air up a low tire in a rest area.. You got it.. The outlet on the end of the pigtail, is an outlet after all.

[Iron Man]

Every time I have used my cheater box (10 times or so) we have gotten 240 volts on the 2 legs. We have a residental dryer and were able were able to use it. Get the cheater box and try it, if it doesn't work it is handy to have for the future. I think since you will hook up to 2 diffrent sites it will work. On my Essex I am able to turn off the EMS so I can treat the connection as a 50 amp connection, I become my EMS and watch what we use.