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Old 07-01-2019, 07:51 PM   #1
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Dash air blows warm-sometimes

2016 VT 4369 on FL chassis.

The dash air blows warm more times than not. Other times it works fine. Sometimes it starts off warm then cools as normal. There doesn't seem to be a pattern.

We are in AK right now so not excessively hot. We also have an appointment in Nappanee but hoping for some things I could check myself before adding it to the list.

Ideas?
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Old 07-01-2019, 08:45 PM   #2
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Troubleshooting A/C problems take gauges, voltmeter, and knowledge of systems. Lacking any of these tools and experience will not fix the problem. Second guess anything is useless. There is nothing to suggest or look at that will solve it.
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Old 07-02-2019, 05:27 PM   #3
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If it gets cool sometimes, then you likely have freon and don't need the gauges.
Sounds more like the compressor isn't kicking on (wiring problem?) or the hot water valve / blend air door is stuck hot.

Turn the A/C on and see if one side of the lines are ice cold (they might have condensate on them). Also, determine if you can hear the compressor cycling on / off when the A/C is on. Do you see any condensate dripping down on the road while A/C is on? If so, that's a good sign that the cooling system is working. Just need to determine whats working and what's not.

If compressor is not turning on, you can jump the low pressure switch. If it turns on, then freon is low or the switch is bad.

If no change when low pressure switch is jumped, then look for the compressor clutch relay. A lot of times it's a standard automotive relay and you can swap it with another to see if the problem moves with the bad relay.
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Old 07-02-2019, 06:02 PM   #4
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Hi - DavL's suggestion about the clutch for the compressor makes a lot of sense. One additional thing is to check the electrical connection at the clutch itself. Sometimes the wire can get pulled loose or might have some corrosion causing the clutch not to engage while at other times it does. Also contact FL to see what parts of the AC are under the FL warranty and what part is Newmar. The FL sections should be covered if that's where the issue is finally determined to be.


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Old 07-02-2019, 06:44 PM   #5
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The recall for the pdm module for the rear lights also affects the dash AC.

I think the original posters coach fall into the recall.
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Old 07-02-2019, 06:48 PM   #6
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It can be a lot of things...

I recently had the same problem. I know my way around an a/c unit, have the equipment, and license.

My system was a little low...but not enough to cause the short cycle of the compressor clutch. Everytime the clutch engaged...low side pressure tanked. I had a blockage. Blockages can be found by looking for a temp change prior to the TXV...in my case you can see my filter/dryer is sweating profusely. Not normal. I ordered a new Filter/Dryer...and just in case a new TXV. I recovered the refrigerant...installed new filter/dryer...drew vacuum and leak checked system for integrity...then recharged with 2.25# of R134A. System is back to churning out cold air. Nearly a 30 degree split...very happy to be back to having proper A/C.

Incidentally, I was able to get a measure on my freon recovered...and I was about 6 oz. low. The website for this system says it's normal to have some loss...we have very long hose runs...and they aren't perfect. You may just need a proper charge.

I caution strongly against blindly adding refrigerant without having a complete view of what's happening. It could take a condition like mine (blockage) from bad to worse... Jumping the pressure switch without knowing the pressures is NOT the best idea. If you have a blockage...you could cause damage.

My TXV was still good...getting a nice 12 degree superheat...and my subcooling looks like around 9 degrees on a 90 degree day with 70% rh. Purring right long.
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Old 07-02-2019, 07:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Master View Post
Troubleshooting A/C problems take gauges, voltmeter, and knowledge of systems. Lacking any of these tools and experience will not fix the problem. Second guess anything is useless. There is nothing to suggest or look at that will solve it.
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:35 AM   #8
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The reported symptoms are that sometimes it works just fine.
Therefore: There is Freon, There is No blockage as those things aren't intermittent.

Intermittent things: Electrical loose wires, relays that are corroded, switches that don't make contact, water valves that get stuck, damper vanes that get stuck.

Shorting the low pressure switch to see if it will turn on the compressor will not damage anything if it isn't held in that position for more than a minute. It's just to check that portion of the electric circuit (clutch coil, relay, wiring harness from relay to clutch and to double check freon).

I don't think a gauge in this instance will help at all. It won't hurt either.
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Old 07-03-2019, 08:02 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dav L View Post
The reported symptoms are that sometimes it works just fine.
Therefore: There is Freon, There is No blockage as those things aren't intermittent.

Intermittent things: Electrical loose wires, relays that are corroded, switches that don't make contact, water valves that get stuck, damper vanes that get stuck.

Shorting the low pressure switch to see if it will turn on the compressor will not damage anything if it isn't held in that position for more than a minute. It's just to check that portion of the electric circuit (clutch coil, relay, wiring harness from relay to clutch and to double check freon).

I don't think a gauge in this instance will help at all. It won't hurt either.
I donít follow. So, your guessing the switch is bad...but you canít reference the low side pressure... With a blockage...the pressure switch cycles. The compressor comes on...high side shoots up to 200, low side drops to zero, this triggers a fully operational pressure switch to turn the compressor clutch back off...the pressure slowly...I mean slowly...builds back up in the low side enough to reengage the clutch. This behavior mimics a low charge...but the gauges are telling you by the amplitude of pressure swing that itís more than that. Shut the system down...and watch as the gauges do not equalize the system in a reasonable period of time like they would without a blockage. I donít have X-ray vision...so in my opinion gauges help. Testing a relay is easy to do with a voltmeter. Watching the clutch engage visually is easy to do.

If you do not use gauges...you arenít diagnosing...youíre applying statistical data and gut feeling. Instead of finding the cause...you are simply eliminating possibilities in a weighted fashion.

Sorry, not something I would put my name to.

Remember...when you work on your coach...Dav L was your source...
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:26 PM   #10
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I don’t follow. So, your guessing the switch is bad...but you can’t reference the low side pressure... With a blockage...the pressure switch cycles. The compressor comes on...high side shoots up to 200, low side drops to zero, this triggers a fully operational pressure switch to turn the compressor clutch back off...the pressure slowly...I mean slowly...builds back up in the low side enough to reengage the clutch. This behavior mimics a low charge...but the gauges are telling you by the amplitude of pressure swing that it’s more than that. Shut the system down...and watch as the gauges do not equalize the system in a reasonable period of time like they would without a blockage. I don’t have X-ray vision...so in my opinion gauges help. Testing a relay is easy to do with a voltmeter. Watching the clutch engage visually is easy to do.

If you do not use gauges...you aren’t diagnosing...you’re applying statistical data and gut feeling. Instead of finding the cause...you are simply eliminating possibilities in a weighted fashion.

Sorry, not something I would put my name to.

Remember...when you work on your coach...Dav L was your source...
The task is to isolate what's working and what's not working INTERMITTENTLY.

If the clutch / compressor isn't turning then the AC isn't going to cool (agreed?).

If you can electrically get the clutch to engage, then at least for that moment, the electrical system to power the clutch is OK.

Best is to listen / see that the clutch engages (or not).

If it does, then its likely the water valve is intermittently getting stuck.

If that is the case, one can crimp a heater hose line going to the valve to ensure that hot water isn't cooling down the chilled air for the intermittent warm dash air.


"Sorry, not something I would put my name to.

Remember...when you work on your coach...Dav L was your source..."

And that's OK.

Not disagreeing with the advantages of having a gauge and then knowing how to read it. Just don't think for this Intermittent issue it is critically required. Much can be done by a decent DIY'r without a gauge set safely.
This could be as simple as a loose connector on the clutch relay. Don't need a gauge to fix that. A voltmeter would be more handy.

AC repairs aren't rocket science. A lot more basic than fuel injection, or ABS brakes. A good basic DIY area to learn.
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:30 AM   #11
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The recall for the pdm module for the rear lights also affects the dash AC.

I think the original posters coach fall into the recall.
Good point. Mine falls under the recall. My dash air doesn't blow as cold as it should. The FL dealer that does my service each summer will be checking it when he does my service and recall in August. It would be great if the recall module took care of both!
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:00 AM   #12
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All good points.

Guess we all know I tend to use the gauges as a crutch. Yes...there are a lot of failure points that have nothing to do with the pressures.

I hope to find out what eventually resolves the issue...always interested in learning.
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Old 07-04-2019, 09:06 PM   #13
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I hope to find out what eventually resolves the issue...always interested in learning.
Agreed.
Kinda a challenge to figure out what's wrong without being there and based on less than perfect symptom capture.
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Old 07-05-2019, 06:16 AM   #14
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im still trying to figure out how to fit a stop at a ( good ) shop to replace mine.

Everything is working good, but i want to get this stikin module, they won't just send it to me, and i send them back the old one.

I took a picture of the numbers tag and yep mine falls right in the middle, it's plug and play.

Be well Joe keep on rollin !
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