DEF fuel additive

[HarrysRV]

When did Newmar Dutchstars start using the DEF fuel additives for diesels? I have a 2009 Dutchstar 400 Cummins and never added anything. A guy with a new Winnebago told me today if he doesn't add it his r v will slow to 30 mph. Thanks

[powerboatr]

DEF is not a fuel additive
it has its own tank and gets squirted/sprayed/atomized into the exhaust stream to make it more earth friendly after the DPF
its an urea and water (mostly) solution that smells like ammonia to me

most 2010 on road diesel engines had it as mandatory

some larger engines were delayed or phased in. but for 2012 IIR its all on road diesel engines

if your friend is losing power its because he ran out of def and the engine went into the de-rate program and will, if not corrected go into SHUTDOWN.
this is by all means not all encompassing.....do a search for EPA 2010 engine and you can read for Days and Days

[GaryKD]

Hi HarrysRV,
The bottom line is engines made after January 1, 2010, require DEF. These engines are suppose to get slightly better fuel mileage.

I have asked the moderators to move this thread to the Newmar Owner's forum. This forum is for Newmar Kountry Klub items.

[Traps90]

Newmar didn;t introduce the diesel engines that required with DPF filters and urea in the DutchStar lineup until 2012. They had enough of the old style engines to carry them through 2011.

All you'll need for your 09 Dutch Star is diesel fuel.

Trap

[DriVer]

There are going to be two camps in the interim when you go and buy a motorhome. It's either going to be pre or post 2010 emissions. If you have a 2007 emission engine (pre) it does not require diesel exhaust fluid. (DEF) {If you extend the abbreviation you can see it's not a fuel additive}. If the engine is a post 2010 model it will be equipped with a tank that will hold the urea or DEF. The tank will also host a number of wires and electrical controls to heat the DEF in winter and to monitor the quantity in the tank. Instrumentation in your IP will walk you through the stages and task you to Regen if necessary. Both engines will require LSD so that's no longer an issue since (I believe) that's the only fuel that's available.

Spartan Chassis (in the future) may become equipped with MaxxForce 13 or greater engines (maybe) since Spartan recently announced that they are using the MaxxForce 7 in their 22K RDP. MaxxForce engines do not require DEF to meet 2010 emissions.

[BCooke]

Just for info. DEF is urea and distilled water.
Obviously not a diesel additive, if it gets added to diesel tank, cry then get out the checkbook for a new engine if it was started.

[HarrysRV]

Thanks for the information. This is a great site.

[Jetsmania]

Hi! For those inquiring minds, Flying J has added DEF pumps on their truck lanes at most stations. The nozzle is located at the left pumps. Great for the truckers! It was a lot of fun pulling the RV through the truck lanes in the wrong direction (the tank for the DEF is located back right rear of the RV). You should have heard all the wonderful things the truckers, parked for the night, had to say on their CB's. Flying J has told us they will be adding some DEF nozzles on the RV lanes in the future. Hopefully on the right side. In the mean time back to the boxes of DEF instead of the pumps. Regards, Paul

[Mr_D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetsmania You should have heard all the wonderful things the truckers, parked for the night, had to say on their CB's.

One of the reasons I haven't even turned my CB on for years now!

[-Gonzo-]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_D One of the reasons I haven't even turned my CB on for years now!

Your not kidding... All the CB is used for now is to pick a fight, yell swears back and forth, & show everyone your inteligence.... It's hard to hear, a so called adult acting like a HS kid! (they;re NOT professionals like there used to be, they are called "steering wheel holders".

Take it from a former trucker w/ 20 years experiance.. (It wasn't always this way, it used to be a great tool to help keep you awake, tell jokes, stories, and to help one another find addresses and things.)

Now all the drivers have a cell phone growing out of their ear. They won't pick up the mike on the CB and say a good word or help someone out for any amount of $$

[free-to-roam]

The DEF dispenser is an obvious BLUE color, so as not to confuse.
Totally agree on the stupidity of CB, aka Cuss Band...not fit for man nor beast...

[Texas TC]

My 2011 Winnebago Journey Express has the Cummins ISB DEF engine. This is my third diesel and I have to say I really like the DEF engine best. It runs smooth, gets over 10 mpg of diesel and 400 mpg of DEF.

Like many, I was skeptical when these things came out but after a few thousand miles, I am a believer.

[-Gonzo-]

Not all the new pick up trucks require DEF! I have a 2011 Dodge 3500 & it doesn't use it, now if you take it to the next lever higher.. Into the commercial, 4500 truck chassis then Yes, it does use DEF.. (This is Dodge Ram w/ the Cummins engine)

Ford Powerstroke, & Chevy Duramax diesels both use DEF in all their motors to meet EPA regulations. Even the 2012 Dodge's do not have DEF in them...


I'm glad to not have to use it.. Just another headache to deal with in cold weather. (Yup, DEF will freeze.. so the truck manafacturers must make a heater for the DEF tank I would guess?)

[DriVer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Gonzo- I'm glad to not have to use it.. Just another headache to deal with in cold weather. (Yup, DEF will freeze.. so the truck manufacturers must make a heater for the DEF tank I would guess?)

Gonzo, True that! Navistar's MaxxForce Engine Group has based their entire business model on the fact that they as the engine manufacturer should be and are in charge of providing the owner operator a working emission control solution without any effort on the part of the owner. From 7L to 15L all MaxxForce engines are AEGR and do not require DEF. If you are running DEF, you are the keystone of your emission control system for the foreseeable future. From my perspective as an RV owner, I don't really want to be part of my emission control strategy and I feel that all that I need to do is only buy fuel which is expensive enough and not incur the added expense of emission control fluid.

MaxxForce certainly did not take the easiest road to navigate however they were focused on developing technology that would accomplish all the Federally mandated emission requirements including the the next level that will happen in 2013. Currently both strategies AEGR and SCR use credits to meet the number that the feds have set. The next step will tighten the requirement even more and in order to meet the number I bet that each technology will have to incorporate some of their competitor's technology to meet the number.

I would bet that SCR will need to do more in the EGR department and that the AEGR camp will have to introduce a Urea type material in the exhaust system to meet the numbers. In recent press releases, Navistar bought a company that makes a solid Urea that can be installed in a device that will require changing at every 2 oil changes (2 years) in RV applications. In OTR applications the "block" might have to be changed more frequently since those guys crank on 100K miles in no time.

Think about this guys ... what if the SCR guys adopt solid Urea as a solution some 2 years from now ... "What happens to all those millions of dollars that have been spent to implement a liquid Urea strategy including the material chain and dispensing equipment?" What would you rather do, add a block of Urea every 2 years or add Urea every time your IP calls for it?

As is stands right now both technology diesel engines under the 2010 emission control requirement exhaust (water vapor) H2O and Nitrogen. These machines can actually operate in a dense urban area and clean the air. The only reason why you can't breathe diesel exhaust is because it does not have any O2 or oxygen.

Diesel as a fuel has more calories and it is actually a much better fuel that gasoline and it cost less to produce. The Feds & states on the other hand tax the heck out of diesel since the consumption by in large is done by the commercial sector. The tax on diesel puts most of the revenue burden on the commercial sector. RV owners get sucked up into that whirlwind and lots of folks are also not liking the fact that they have to buy DEF which cost money.

Diesel powered vehicles put out a cleaner exhaust than gasoline powered vehicles and therefore as a fuel, diesel should be the way to go.