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Old 08-23-2019, 09:03 AM   #1
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Diesel fuel quality

I purchased diesel at the Loves travel stop in Barstow Ca. I asked about the quality and sulfur content because I notice there is no quality label on the pump. The manager told me that it is has bio diesel and 20% less sulfur than regular diesel. Not sure if it meets the Cummins recommendation for low sulfur fuel? I did add diesel clean if that makes a difference. Anyone know?
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Old 08-23-2019, 09:26 AM   #2
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So that World War III isnít started here...again...LOL, can you do a search and find the Bio-Diesel thread. I think I started it, if you wanna search on my posts.

It contained all the info you need, and then some. Lots of links to Cummins data, as well as all the additives, anti-gel, etc. etc. etc.
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Old 08-23-2019, 09:51 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGizmo View Post
So that World War III isnít started here...again...LOL, can you do a search and find the Bio-Diesel thread. I think I started it, if you wanna search on my posts.

It contained all the info you need, and then some. Lots of links to Cummins data, as well as all the additives, anti-gel, etc. etc. etc.
Thanks Steve. Do you have a link?
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Old 08-23-2019, 09:55 AM   #4
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Diesel fuel quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchStar JK View Post
Thanks Steve. Do you have a link?


I had to dig and search for you. Itís in the Cummins section. So here is the link:

Bio-Diesel is a NO-NO, per Cummins
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...5&share_type=t
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Old 08-23-2019, 10:06 AM   #5
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I had to dig and search for you. Itís in the Cummins section. So here is the link:

Bio-Diesel is a NO-NO, per Cummins
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...5&share_type=t
Wow. Thanks for the effort.
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Old 08-23-2019, 10:13 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchStar JK View Post
Wow. Thanks for the effort.


Youíre welcome...enjoy the info.
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Old 08-23-2019, 10:15 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchStar JK View Post
The manager told me that it is has bio diesel and 20% less sulfur than regular diesel.
Since all diesel fuel sold for highway use is ultra-low sulphur diesel, 20% less Sulphur than 'regular' diesel sounds like it's 20% biodiesel, or B20. The pump should be marked as such, since it's over 5% biodiesel.

Or I'm all wet on that. It's one or the other.
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Old 08-23-2019, 10:35 AM   #8
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Please see the above link. Itíll answer ALL that!!!
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Old 08-23-2019, 10:42 AM   #9
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I would rather rehash it!
Here's how I see it......Any diesel fuel you buy within the United States can have up to 5% bio diesel without labeling it as such...…..

Quote....."B1-B5: Does not require a pump label. ASTM announced in 2008 that biodiesel blends up to B5 perform and are handled the same as straight diesel fuel. Many retailers offer blends up to B5 in varying amounts and do not need to label."

Personally, I will avoid B20 diesel because I believe it lacks the same therms as #2 diesel, consequently being less powerful. I see some stations discount the price of B20 by 30 - 40 cents while others charge as much as #2 diesel, a rip off.

A couple of years ago, Cummins came out with a statement that said you should use additives, as the lubricity of fuel in the U.S. may not always meet the Government standards. Diesel Power magazine did a test several years ago and found that on occasion, some of the tested fuel DID NOT meet the Government lubricity standards.

Here is the statement from Cummins and the link....

Quote….."Cummins Filtration offers an array of fuel additive products to enhance the fuel system performance and support new emission standards. Changing regulations that have lead to the use of biodiesel blends and ULSD fuels have created unique maintenance needs across the globe. The addition of high quality fuel additives is now an important element in every good diesel engine maintenance program."

https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/additives

So......no matter where or what you buy, you'll most likely get some percentage of bio diesel between B1-B5 without your knowledge. Cummins is recommending additives and obviously theirs. I use OptiLube as it was rated as one of the best. I use the Summer blend as it is the most price effective. It also provides a cetane boost. I'm using it, betting on it increasing the lubricity in an occasional poor tank of diesel.

Lastly, living in California, I'll never need anti gel and I try and buy from busy stations to avoid water in the diesel. When I owned my 2005 Diplomat with a Cummins engine, it had a sticker on the fuel door that said, B5 bio diesel is okay. I believe there is a sticker or info on the new coaches that says B20 is okay. Cummins is not going to be able to void a warranty if you use B20. First, it's approved by the Government and how would they test for the use. Many fill their coaches with B20 to save money and have no idea there is a difference. Someone on the phone may say it's not a good idea to se bio diesle and I agree, but, you'll NEVR hear them say it will void your warranty.
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Old 08-23-2019, 12:10 PM   #10
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Let me the "refinery / energy company guy" opine on this topic. By Federal Trade Commission regulation, all pumps selling ULSD product must have a green ULSD label. This is to help assure that Off-Road diesel is not sold for On-Highway use. The green ULSD label is all that is needed for ULSD containing 0-5% bio/renewable diesel. ULSD containing more than 5% biodiesel has specific biodiesel labeling requirements prescribed by the FTC. This website provides the ULSD and biodiesel pump labeling requirements --> https://www.regi.com/blogs/blog-deta...g-requirements

For me personally I would be very hesitant purchasing diesel from a pump that does not have the proper labeling as I prefer not to burn B20 diesel.

Also, Dutch Star Don is correct that biodiesel (and all other renewable fuels) have lower energy content i.e. BTUs per gallon than fossil fuels. This chart shows the energy content of fossil and renewable fuels --> https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/fuel_comparison_chart.pdf

The energy content of pure biodiesel (B100) is 10% lower than the energy content of conventional (crude oil derived) diesel fuel. What this means is the higher the biodiesel content in ULSD, the lower the energy content resulting in lower fuel mileage (i.e need to burn more biodiesel to achieve the same engine horsepower output as derived from conventional diesel).

Same situation exists for gasoline containing ethanol. The energy content of pure ethanol is 35% less than conventional (ethanol free) gasoline. As such, the higher the ethanol content in gasoline, the lower the mileage for our toads.


Finally, all diesel fuels are inherently "unstable" as the olefins and aromatics present is all diesel fuels will react with air (oxidize) over time and form "gunk". Biodiesel is less stable that conventional diesel. As such, I routinely use the Sta-Bil brand of diesel fuel stabilizer to help maximize diesel fuel stability --> https://www.goldeagle.com/product/di...el-stabilizer/

Hope this info helps!
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Old 08-23-2019, 12:50 PM   #11
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Thank you all for your informative lessons on Bio Fuel. I recently did a 7000 mile trip down the East coast and all the way down to Key West the back to Colorado through Texas and New Mexico. We tried to keep off the highways and get out to outer islands and banks. Several times we had no choice and had to buy bio diesel. It seemed to work OK but I wondered what the problems might be. My little (26' Class A) rig is on a Mercedes Sprinter base but I expect that it has the same requirements as your bigger rigs. I will look into "Stabil" or "Opti-lube" and start using one of those.
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Old 08-23-2019, 03:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchStar JK View Post
I purchased diesel at the Loves travel stop in Barstow Ca. I asked about the quality and sulfur content because I notice there is no quality label on the pump. The manager told me that it is has bio diesel and 20% less sulfur than regular diesel. Not sure if it meets the Cummins recommendation for low sulfur fuel? I did add diesel clean if that makes a difference. Anyone know?

I believe that you will find a sticker on the inside of your fuel fill hatch that says B20 is OK to use. It's on our 2017.-Paul
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Old 08-23-2019, 08:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGizmo View Post
I had to dig and search for you. Itís in the Cummins section. So here is the link:

Bio-Diesel is a NO-NO, per Cummins
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...5&share_type=t
That link takes me to a "Tapatalk" screen. Am I missing something!

TJ
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Old 08-24-2019, 06:00 AM   #14
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Don't think I would be asking a retail convenience store manager about the chemical composition of fuel. Something as complicated as the chemical components of fuel needs to be left to the chemical engineers and company documentation.
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