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Old 09-06-2014, 12:59 PM   #1
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Driver's Window Debacle

My coach has never been to Newmar since it left the factory and it's been to Spartan only 3 times (they are fantastic though) for the cooling fan recall and alignments. I've done literally every other thing on it from crankshaft and accessory drive seals to A/C repair and everything between (though I'm fortunate to have the shop and tools to do it all in.) I don't believe ANYONE will take as good of care of your coach as you will.

That said, if I'd known then what I know now, I'd have made the trip to Newmar to get my driver's side window (it's a massive reverse L shaped, irregular size -- the stationary side, not the power side) replaced and let them deal with the headache. It's the only window I've had to replace in this coach (replaced many in previous) due to fogging. I contacted Newmar and they of course wanted $1,600 for the window. I called Atwood, the manufacturer, they wanted $800. It's not a typical window, so they had to get the materials and make it. Once I knew it was on the way, I set off to replace it. The overhead cabinet was blocking the whole row of top fasteners... so, after removing the vallance, support, motorized blinds, etc. there still wasn't enough room, even with a tiny 90 degree drill attachment. I was left with the choice of fooling with removing the whole overhead cabinet, disturbing all the wiring running over the top of it, or cut an access hole in the panel inside the back of the cabinet. Because that wouldn't be seen unless the cabinet was open, I opted for that route.

I got the window out (with the help of industrial glass suction cups and my scissor lift) and the new one arrived the next day. Much to my dismay, the new window was trashed. Atwood unfortunately just tossed this heavy window into a cardboard box with no packing material and the frame and edges were destroyed in transit. I'm only a couple of hours from Elkhart, so I asked Atwood to make a new one and I'd come pick it up in person -- they obliged and even refunded the shipping costs to offset my own.

Got the new window home... wouldn't fit!! Relatively close, but not nearly close enough. I started to make comparisons to the original and noticed the original was even more irregular than I'd thought. I got the blueprint for the window from ComNet and started making comparisons -- the new window was dead on to the blueprint, the original one slightly off. I contacted Newmar to see if the design had been changed/re-used later on; it wasn't. They said it should fit and I said it wouldn't without modification to the opening. They of course advised against that.

I then compared the first (damaged) replacement window assembly to the second and they were dead on. I contacted Atwood and explained the situation... they said they could make a new one, but it would be made identical to the other two.

So, the theory I rolled with is that the original window that went in my coach was off and Newmar cut the opening around that. The only way a new window would go in that hole was to modify the hole. So, I begrudgingly spent the next 2 days carefully die grinding and putting that window in and out and in and out until it was a perfect fit (or as close to as possible.)

The next challenge was the fact that Atwood included and recommends (and I do too) butyl tape instead of Newmar's dense foam tape. The thickness of the opening (which I didn't modify) was different from the front and back due to the support for the beginning of the a-pillar. So, using butyl tape would have left a very slight gap I wouldn't have been OK with. I contacted Newmar and they said this is one of the reasons they recommend the foam tape, so I ordered that, peeled the butyl off and replaced. The window fit great and went back together at that point. Some ProFlex, profanity and LOTS of vacuuming of grinding dust later, the project was complete.

Moral of the story? If I had it to do over again, I'd have taken it to Newmar and spent $3,000 letting them deal with the hassle and Atwood! I can't even imagine the hackjob a typical RV dealer would have done, but in hindsight, I'd have been ok with letting Newmar take a stab at it and saving myself a solid week of grief and frustration!

As an aside, I did contact three companies that do the RV fog repair. None wanted anything to do with the window as it was too likely to be broken and too complex to repair.

Sure seemed like it would go smoother in my head!
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Old 09-06-2014, 01:23 PM   #2
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Boy good deal you have the tools and the patients for a job well done, I wonder if any other owners of 2007 MA had that problem, just notice you have a custom built coach.
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Old 09-06-2014, 01:52 PM   #3
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I have an 07 Mountain Aire 3991 and would like to see a pic of the problem window. My gas chassis driver's window may be configured differently.

A riding mower took out our picture window at the dining area. New window, shipping, installation was 2500 bucks. Had it not been for the mower owner's insurance, there would have been particle board screwed over that opening.
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Old 09-06-2014, 03:35 PM   #4
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Wow, good job! Had my drivers window replaced by Newmar, first one came in out of square, second one was on back order,after 6-8 weeks finally got it in.
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Old 09-06-2014, 07:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gruelens View Post
I have an 07 Mountain Aire 3991 and would like to see a pic of the problem window. My gas chassis driver's window may be configured differently.

A riding mower took out our picture window at the dining area. New window, shipping, installation was 2500 bucks. Had it not been for the mower owner's insurance, there would have been particle board screwed over that opening.
I don't have a great picture of it right now, but I drew an outline around it. It's a two piece assembly -- the impacted portion in my case was the stationary side as outlined.

This is the engineering drawing for the window itself:

At least in my case, the original window was slightly more rounded and overall a touch smaller than the one in the drawing and the actual replacement window. It would have been far easier had I not had the second, power window assembly to work around.
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Old 09-07-2014, 01:38 AM   #6
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I've got an '08 MADP and my driver's side fixed window fogged up too, but I went a different route. Instead of changing the whole fixture I had a local glass company come in to re-do the window seals...then the fun began. As you said the removal went easy, there was already a slot in the back of the cabinets so it was easy to get to the top screws with a regular screwdriver. The glass company was going to take the window apart, clean it, re-seal it, and put new argon in it. When they tried to take the 2 pieces of glass apart they broke one of them and since it's tempered glass they had to draw a "to scale" drawing and have a new one made at a glass production facility. After one piece came in broken and another one ordered they finally were able to put it all back together. That whole job took 3+ weeks and I'm sure the glass company lost money because they only charged me $300.00 for the entire job.
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Old 09-07-2014, 07:00 AM   #7
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LindyT: I agree with you. I think some things should be left to the professionals. We've had several issues with our 2005 DSDP and after my attempts to repair we have in several cases taken it to professionals including Mobile techs with great outcomes - not cheap but a good job. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 09-07-2014, 10:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harleychief View Post
I've got an '08 MADP and my driver's side fixed window fogged up too, but I went a different route. Instead of changing the whole fixture I had a local glass company come in to re-do the window seals...then the fun began. As you said the removal went easy, there was already a slot in the back of the cabinets so it was easy to get to the top screws with a regular screwdriver. The glass company was going to take the window apart, clean it, re-seal it, and put new argon in it. When they tried to take the 2 pieces of glass apart they broke one of them and since it's tempered glass they had to draw a "to scale" drawing and have a new one made at a glass production facility. After one piece came in broken and another one ordered they finally were able to put it all back together. That whole job took 3+ weeks and I'm sure the glass company lost money because they only charged me $300.00 for the entire job.
You already had a slot cut in the cabinet?? Interesting - even that's not consistent I guess. I had to cut mine out. :(

I didn't think about a local glass company. I tried the big name companies that specialize in fogged RV windows and none wanted anything to do with it. I can see why now.

If you can convince a company to rebuild it though, that is definitely the way to go with that rascal, unless you want to go to Newmar and let them deal with the headache. There's no way I'd have trusted a general RV dealership to tackle what I went through.

I may have to make further modifications at some point. On rough roads, the window creaks due to flexing. Drives me nuts.
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