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Old 07-03-2016, 08:37 AM   #1
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DS 4369 Test Drive Questions

We're looking for a new coach, and as such are interested in the Dutch Stars.

As background we bought a "do we like the lifestyle coach" (2000 FW Discovery) a few years ago, so anything we buy will be a huge step up.

A couple of days ago we spent 3-4 hours going over and test driving a DS and have a few questions that I hope people here could answer:

1) This was the first time I drove a coach with comfort drive and it was NICE. The dealer started me out at 4 but I quickly adjusted it to 2.5 based on advice I saw on this forum. I actually ended up with it at 1 by the end of the 25 mile test drive. My question is does the lower setting de-tune the drive, or is the lighter touch just seem that way? Especially at 1, at first it seemed mushy but within a few miles, I found myself thinking "I could get used to this!" Plus I will say I was one hand / two finger driving from the beginning even at 4. Nothing at all like my current ride.

2) Acceleration. Maybe I was expecting too much, but I swear the 4369 accelerates slower than my current 300hp. I had a nice long flat 1/2 mile entrance ramp, and I wasn't up to 65 by the end of the ramp. Some of it may have been the quietness, you really don't hear the engine rev like I do on my 5.9, but even with the extra weight, I expected to feel the increased hp and torque on a flat road or at least be equal to what I have. Does this sound normal?

3) Is the only fuel filter the water separator filter on the rear? I also saw another smaller filter there, but it looked like a hydraulic filter to me. Of course the sales guy wasn't sure. Heck he even tried to tell me that the generator wasn't on a slide, when I was trying to find out how to release it. He then pointed to the fuel filter by the generator and said there's a fuel filter.

4) Sharp corners on wood work, is that something I can ask to be radius-ed at the factory? I actually opened my head up twice inside the coach. I know you learn not to hit your head after a while (and I don't have as much padding up there that I once had), but one of the bad places was right over one of the recliners on the FWS and it's just 1-2 inches lower than me.

5) Furry friend question: has anyone had any problems with furry dogs or dog tails with the FWS floor wheels? the gap and the rollers down on the floor look like they could really catch in the fur when closed up driving down the road. Especially if the slide out flexes or moves around slightly going down the road. Our current slide out doesn't have a gap like the FWS does.

6) Almost hate to ask, but... can anyone confirm that the FWS leveling is fixed on the 2017's? We were looking at 2016's and two of them were noticeably out of level when opened up.

7) Anyone order a new DS lately? We were told that the factory is backed up to at least December for new orders. Now I realize that could have been the sales guy trying to get rid of his 2016's, but I had already told him we would be ordering or buying a 2017 for the larger front tires/axle upgrade.

Finally, I will admit, prior to Friday, I was leaning toward Entegra, but the comfort drive, and Thor's purchase has me really leaning toward the DS.

I still plan to do both factory tours in a couple of weeks, and drive an Entegra before we make our final decision, but right now is the time to try steal some experience from people on the forum.

Thanks,

Steve

P.S. the sales guy was a really nice guy, and spent a large amount of time with us, the technical side just wasn't his strong suit.
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Old 07-03-2016, 09:32 AM   #2
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Those are great questions, and I'm sure some Dutch Star owners will come along and provide some good answers.

Certainly, the DS is a quality coach with a lot of heritage!

I, like you, would also be interested in the Entegra, but the Thor purchase wouldn't bother me at all. It would actually make me feel better. Thor Industries, not to be confused with Thor Motor Coach, has successfully operated/backed many brands, including some high end names.

If for any reason I liked the Entegra more, I'd go for it without worry. But boy those Dutchstars are solid.
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Old 07-03-2016, 10:57 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photraveller View Post
We're looking for a new coach, and as such are interested in the Dutch Stars.

As background we bought a "do we like the lifestyle coach" (2000 FW Discovery) a few years ago, so anything we buy will be a huge step up.

A couple of days ago we spent 3-4 hours going over and test driving a DS and have a few questions that I hope people here could answer:

1) This was the first time I drove a coach with comfort drive and it was NICE. The dealer started me out at 4 but I quickly adjusted it to 2.5 based on advice I saw on this forum. I actually ended up with it at 1 by the end of the 25 mile test drive. My question is does the lower setting de-tune the drive, or is the lighter touch just seem that way? Especially at 1, at first it seemed mushy but within a few miles, I found myself thinking "I could get used to this!" Plus I will say I was one hand / two finger driving from the beginning even at 4. Nothing at all like my current ride.

A lot of folks settle in at about 3 - 3.5. But that's the good part about it as the wind picks up you can change it. I believe Higher is more assist. I'm at 3.5 and haven't changed it in a year.

2) Acceleration. Maybe I was expecting too much, but I swear the 4369 accelerates slower than my current 300hp. I had a nice long flat 1/2 mile entrance ramp, and I wasn't up to 65 by the end of the ramp. Some of it may have been the quietness, you really don't hear the engine rev like I do on my 5.9, but even with the extra weight, I expected to feel the increased hp and torque on a flat road or at least be equal to what I have. Does this sound normal?

I thought my 2003 MA 400 had more power as well. But as I approach 8 k this is getting better. I don't think you will see the real "engine" until about 12 -16 k

3) Is the only fuel filter the water separator filter on the rear? I also saw another smaller filter there, but it looked like a hydraulic filter to me. Of course the sales guy wasn't sure. Heck he even tried to tell me that the generator wasn't on a slide, when I was trying to find out how to release it. He then pointed to the fuel filter by the generator and said there's a fuel filter.

The water separator is the primary and the small one next to it is the secondary.

4) Sharp corners on wood work, is that something I can ask to be radius-ed at the factory? I actually opened my head up twice inside the coach. I know you learn not to hit your head after a while (and I don't have as much padding up there that I once had), but one of the bad places was right over one of the recliners on the FWS and it's just 1-2 inches lower than me.

Can't help with this one. But my bet is the way it is is the way it is going to be.

5) Furry friend question: has anyone had any problems with furry dogs or dog tails with the FWS floor wheels? the gap and the rollers down on the floor look like they could really catch in the fur when closed up driving down the road. Especially if the slide out flexes or moves around slightly going down the road. Our current slide out doesn't have a gap like the FWS does.

We have a Portuguese Water Dog and there is no problem. I think your pets are safe. The rollers are well back under on our 2015 but I'm not remembering the 2016 HWH slide good enough to give you an answer

6) Almost hate to ask, but... can anyone confirm that the FWS leveling is fixed on the 2017's? We were looking at 2016's and two of them were noticeably out of level when opened up.

Oh why not? There is a fix for that and the factory knows how

7) Anyone order a new DS lately? We were told that the factory is backed up to at least December for new orders. Now I realize that could have been the sales guy trying to get rid of his 2016's, but I had already told him we would be ordering or buying a 2017 for the larger front tires/axle upgrade.

2017's actually went into production when I was at the plant on May 20th the same day production went from 7 a day to 8. I was on the afternoon tour and saw the first unit in the line at the third position. The person doing the tour didn't know it was there. I'm sure there are dealers that have slots available to be built as you want. Now finding that dealer may be a bit of a problem. Without getting into a Whizzing contest here, if you PM me I'll give you a vary good dealer that may be able to help.

Finally, I will admit, prior to Friday, I was leaning toward Entegra, but the comfort drive, and Thor's purchase has me really leaning toward the DS.

I still plan to do both factory tours in a couple of weeks, and drive an Entegra before we make our final decision, but right now is the time to try steal some experience from people on the forum.

Thanks,

Steve

P.S. the sales guy was a really nice guy, and spent a large amount of time with us, the technical side just wasn't his strong suit.
Hope this helps
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Old 07-03-2016, 05:43 PM   #4
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VP -- Thanks for the detailed response.

The lower number definitely was more assist on the comfort drive. I read somewhere here, that the number corresponds to pounds of force to turn the wheel. So 6 is 6 pounds, and 1 and 1 pound. Or something like that.

Driving with it at 1 was like driving an old school caddy, super easy to drive with one finger, but it "seemed" mushy and not as responsive. However as I drove with it at that setting I got used to it and could see why some people would like it there. Personally, I think I would want it higher especially if it was windy.

Good point on the engine needing to break in.

Steve
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Old 07-03-2016, 06:24 PM   #5
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OP. Was in a 2017 DSDP last week and the full wall slide was noticeably out of level. Not as bad as our 16 but still out of level
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Old 07-04-2016, 01:22 PM   #6
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OP. Was in a 2017 DSDP last week and the full wall slide was noticeably out of level. Not as bad as our 16 but still out of level
The new designed adjustable arms are being used now on all new units and can be retro fitted for early units that were out of level. Jay had them installed on London Air about 3 weeks after the did the Factory Pickup. Randy
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Old 07-05-2016, 04:53 PM   #7
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we just ordered a ds 4369 and expect an Oct delivery. it was end of Sept a couple of weeks ago. The FWS seemed level on the unit we were on. You will also probably have to "learn" what works on any new coach regarding the engine and transmission pairing - a little more throttle would call for a down shift possibly. I'm not sure with these new engines if there is a noticeable difference with more miles where it may be more getting used to what it will do. We loved the fact we customized our coach to make it ours at Newmar...don't know of any others that do that at this price point. used KA flooring, LA counter, MA fabric, LA and MA exterior colors!! The only problem is now waiting!
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Old 07-05-2016, 06:53 PM   #8
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The new designed adjustable arms are being used now on all new units and can be retro fitted for early units that were out of level. Jay had them installed on London Air about 3 weeks after the did the Factory Pickup. Randy

Any idea what's involved in retrofitting the parts to make my slide level? What's the downtime? Thanks
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Old 07-05-2016, 07:51 PM   #9
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Thanks everyone for their replies.

It seems like I need to wait until I see some 2017's to make sure the FWS out of level issue is truly fixed. I saw where the LA got adjusted, but I haven't heard of any existing or new DS getting the slide leveled out.

I love that it appears there is a fix, but when you see multiple brand new 2016's sitting on the lot with slides noticeably out of level and not fixed, it makes me pause and ask why haven't they been corrected.

I do love the customization that Newmar allows. That plus the ability to get recliners from the factory is huge for us.

I really like the comfort drive, but to be honest I need to drive the "other" coach without. I figure both will be huge step up from my current 16 yr old coach without a tag.

I feel like whatever we pick will be a trade off somewhere.

The biggest issue I see with the DS 43' floorplans is space when closed up. It seems a lot of space is taken away from the aisle by the TV lift behind the couch. They then decided to extend the depth of the kitchen cabinets since the couch was already pushed out that far. The end result being the aisle is much tighter than my current coach. Which is a real issue for my wife who has balance issues.

I wish the 43' DS had a floor plan like a few of the 40' ones where the TV isn't behind the couch. I gladly give up the extra length if it wasn't for the 2AC limit on the 40'ers.

Steve
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Old 07-06-2016, 07:51 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by photraveller View Post
1) This was the first time I drove a coach with comfort drive and it was NICE. The dealer started me out at 4 but I quickly adjusted it to 2.5 based on advice I saw on this forum. I actually ended up with it at 1 by the end of the 25 mile test drive. My question is does the lower setting de-tune the drive, or is the lighter touch just seem that way? Especially at 1, at first it seemed mushy but within a few miles, I found myself thinking "I could get used to this!" Plus I will say I was one hand / two finger driving from the beginning even at 4. Nothing at all like my current ride.

Thanks,

Steve
The CD does not change the relationship of the road wheels to the steering wheel but it does control the effort or torque that the driver has to exert to move the steering wheel. I would have to have further discussions with you to figure out just what you mean by "de-tune" and "mushy" to better answer your question. As has already been said, the lower numbers make the wheel easier to turn because the motor helps you. Higher numbers make the wheel harder to turn as the motor resists you.

The beauty of the efforts control is that here is no wrong way to use it. You can adjust it to where you want it at any given time. I know several people who like it set as low as possible and others who set it as stiff as possible and they're both right.

I'm glad you like it and are factoring that feature into your choice of a coach.
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Old 07-06-2016, 11:36 AM   #11
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The CD does not change the relationship of the road wheels to the steering wheel but it does control the effort or torque that the driver has to exert to move the steering wheel. I would have to have further discussions with you to figure out just what you mean by "de-tune" and "mushy" to better answer your question. As has already been said, the lower numbers make the wheel easier to turn because the motor helps you. Higher numbers make the wheel harder to turn as the motor resists you.

The beauty of the efforts control is that here is no wrong way to use it. You can adjust it to where you want it at any given time. I know several people who like it set as low as possible and others who set it as stiff as possible and they're both right.

I'm glad you like it and are factoring that feature into your choice of a coach.
I was just about to jump in and answer the Comfort Drive questions but Ken is the guy who designed it, so you can't do better than that as a source of info!

I have experimented for over a year and 3.5-4 is where I like it best. I find that at 1, the effort is SO light that I tend to start micro-correcting like I do on a non-CD coach. 6 is just too darn hard and wears me out unless I'm cruising on an absolutely straight stretch of highway.

3.5-4 is Just Right for me.
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