Electrical / Battery Confusion - 2004 Nemar Dutch Star 41'

[Corvetteman]

Just when I thought I had a pretty good understanding of my electrical, I guess I don't!

I installed a 20 amp/120 volt outlet, used the heavy electrical cord from the coach, and with adapters, brought it from 50 amp, to a 3-prong 20 amp/120 volt system. I plugged it into the outlet and everything seemed to be charging.

I then went out to check on my battery charge several weeks later on the inverter, and low and behold, everything was dead! I checked the outlet and it seems that every time I plug it in, it pops my breaker on the outlet?

Shouldn't a 20/120 plug be fine as long as I am not using any heavy appliances, etc, (Everything is actually shut off).

I have just now hooked up a charger under the 6-volt/6 amp setting. I am hoping I did not damage the batteries! Any idea how long it will take to charge and any thoughts on how I should proceed? Thanks

[mel s]

Originally Posted by Corvetteman

Just when I thought I had a pretty good understanding of my electrical, I guess I don't!

I installed a 20 amp/120 volt outlet, used the heavy electrical cord from the coach, and with adapters, brought it from 50 amp, to a 3-prong 20 amp/120 volt system. I plugged it into the outlet and everything seemed to be charging.

I then went out to check on my battery charge several weeks later on the inverter, and low and behold, everything was dead! I checked the outlet and it seems that every time I plug it in, it pops my breaker on the outlet?

Shouldn't a 20/120 plug be fine as long as I am not using any heavy appliances, etc, (Everything is actually shut off).

I have just now hooked up a charger under the 6-volt/6 amp setting. I am hoping I did not damage the batteries! Any idea how long it will take to charge and any thoughts on how I should proceed? Thanks

Corvetteman
Can you please explain what you mean by "my breaker on the outlet"?
Thanks
Mel
'96 Safari, (plugged into a 20A GFCI protected garage outlet).

[Corvetteman]

In the middle of the outlet between the places that you plug in, there is a test/reset button. If I plug in a small appliance like a can opener, the plug works fine, but when I plug in the 3-prong plug from the motorhome, it pops out and I have to keep pushing the reset.

[GaryKD]

Hi Corvetteman,
Sounds like you have a GFCI breaker. They do go bad. Over the years, I've had several GFCI breakers go bad. Try another appliance or tool that has a 3 prong cord. If the batteries are still good they will take several days to charge to 100%. If they charge in a few hours they are no good. Now for a question about the batteries. I'm assuming you are charging the coach batteries.

Why are you charging at 6 volts?

Your coach should have 4, 6 volt deep cycle batteries. They are wired so you have two 12 volt batteries. Two batteries are wire in series to make two 12 volt batteries. Then the two battery banks are wired in parallel. Consider getting a regular 12 volt battery charger. Connect the + lead to the terminal that goes to the coach. Connect the - lead to the terminal that goes to coach ground. All 4 batteries will charge at the same time.

As to the popping of the breaker, some coaches do not like a 20 AMP circuit via the shore power cord. Do you have a surge protector on the coach? Some 50 AMP surge protectors do not like a 20 AMP circuit. After making sure the wiring you made is perfect, consider going to the electric bay that holds the shore power core. The coach battery charger may be in this bay or if you have a charger included in the inverter go to that location. The purpose is to remove the plug that provides the charger power to charge the coach batteries. Connect the charger or inverter/charger directly to the 20 AMP circuit. This should allow the coach to rest and the coach batteries to charge via the charger in the coach.

[mel s]

Originally Posted by Corvetteman

In the middle of the outlet between the places that you plug in, there is a test/reset button. If I plug in a small appliance like a can opener, the plug works fine, but when I plug in the 3-prong plug from the motorhome, it pops out and I have to keep pushing the reset.

Corvetteman
That would be A GFCI receptacle, (not a circuit breaker).


See: Troubleshooting Common GFCI Outlet Problems | DoItYourself.com

Mel
'96 Safari

[Corvetteman]

Hi Gary and Mel

I have just enough knowledge that I am dangerous! Sorry about confusion with the GFCI, you both were correct. I am going to ask some more pretty dumb questions below, I ask for your patience!

In regards to the batteries, I also misunderstood, I new I had 4 batteries, and I believed them to be 6 volt, I did not understand that the connection made them the equivalent of 12 volt. In regards to the positive and negative terminals, if I place the chargers positive to a battery positive, and the same for the negative, can they both be on the same battery since everything is in series or must they be to specific batteries, such that the chargers positive to one battery and the negative to a completely different battery? My charger displays up to 8 DC AMPS, once the previous question about the terminals is answered, what amps will it show on the charger and should it eventually go up or down as it is being charged? I am assuming that the display will stay constant and gradually go up or down, and not jump from 0 -8. guess the display may say a lot about my battery situation.

Last question about the charging situation: Currently my Xantrex RC7 seems dead, will that come back to life once the batteries are charged, or could it be that the batteries are fine and I actually have done something to the Xantrex system which gives the appearance of dead batteries?

As mentioned, many dumb questions! Thanks

[Scottybdivin]

Corvetteman, I have run into the same situation as you. My inverter/charger has a setting for "charge rate" on the remote menu. If it is set for 50A and I plug into 15A, the load of the charger plus other draws like a fridge can exceed 15A and immediately trip a GFCI breaker. After I set the charge rate for 15A service, it didn't trip the breaker. Unfortunately, I didn't discover this until after I needed it, and had to boonedock for 5 days.

[Corvetteman]

Hi Scotty

I wish I had known that. I just thought the Inverter/Charger would adjust automatically. Are you able to answer the million other questions I had asked? Thanks for your reply!

[GaryKD]

Hi Corvetteman,
If you have the inverter/charger corrected, charge the batteries via the shore power cord. If you still want to put a separate charger on the coach batteries, keep the charging simple. Get a meter and place the + lead on the terminal that goes to the coach. Place the - lead on the terminal that goes to ground. You should be reading 12 VDC or higher. Because the batteries are dead, this might not be possible. Regardless, think of the 4 batteries as two very large 12 volt batteries. If you look at the battery connections you will see the + terminal that goes to the coach and the - terminal that goes to ground. This is where you connect the battery charger. Forget about the rest of the rats nest of connections. A 12 volt charger connected as mentioned here and in my previous post will charge all 4 batteries at the same time. This is the backup plan since it is best to have the inverter/charger doing this work. Hopefully, the information in Scottybdivin's post will allow you to charge the batteries via the shore power cord.

Once the batteries are charged, get a meter and place the leads on the terminals mentioned earlier. Then place the leads on any 2 terminals. Once you do this all will become clear as to where 6 volts and where 12 volts are in the battery bank.

[Corvetteman]

Hi Gary

Making progress! I understand the battery situation now and have checked them. I see that they are very low and I have hooked the battery charger (12 Volt) to the correct terminals. I am not sure how long it will take to charge but will let it run the night and will check in the morning, and during the day until they are fully charged.

Once charged fully, should I be able to check the inverter and see the status of my batteries, tanks, etc. (Inverter is currently dead - no lights - no ability to see status, etc.) and be able to turn from Store to Use and be able to have coach lights as before?

If the answer is yes then great, if not, I may still have a reset or circuit breaker that I have missed on the inverter.

In regards to Scotty's situation, if I can get the inverter to light back up, then maybe I will find the voltage setting for a 20 amp/ 120 volt outlet, and it will keep the GFCI from tripping, if not I may have to put in a 50 amp outlet instead of what I have.

You, Scotty, and Mel have been very helpful!!!!!

["007"]

What you need to do is disconnect the cord for refrigerator form its outlet.
You will have two coeds one for elements and one for ice maker.
You may have a electric heating element breaking down for the fridge.
The GFI will sense the high resistance from defective element and trip.
If that does not solve problem unplug other appliances and check on them.
Your batteries will charge on the 120 circuit outlet if that's what you are only going to use. The Bird System will maintain your battery systems.
Information in this link will explain how to wire for 50 amp service if you change to higher voltage.

[Corvetteman]

007

Once I charge up my batteries with a Battery Charger, will the Xantrex RC7 "Turn On", allowing me to then push Battery, Gray Water, Fresh Water, Black Water buttons and see their status? Keep in mind that currently my RC7 doesn't show anything when checking the above, or will the RC7 only work once I correctly get Shore Power, Start Generator, or start up Engines? Thanks

["007"]

Wouldn't your inverter/converter already be on for charging voltage for Bird System, the display would be indicating your charging voltages.
Have you check for tripped fuses or circuit breakers on inverter?

[Scottybdivin]

Originally Posted by Corvetteman

007

Once I charge up my batteries with a Battery Charger, will the Xantrex RC7 "Turn On", allowing me to then push Battery, Gray Water, Fresh Water, Black Water buttons and see their status? Keep in mind that currently my RC7 doesn't show anything when checking the above, or will the RC7 only work once I correctly get Shore Power, Start Generator, or start up Engines? Thanks

Corvetteman, I'm not familiar with Xantrex, but most inverters have a low voltage cutoff. It may require a re-set. I would suggest going to the Xantrex website and see if you can download the owner's manual for your model. You'll be glad to have it anyway.