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Ecker · 11-06-2006, 04:49 AM

I saw a comment on here but can't find it to respond to on the subject of engine stockpiling. It is not true that Cummins stockplied a lot of '06 engines. There are EPA regulations that do not permit stockpiling of engines and also chassis and body builders from doing the same. Folks could and did pre-buy to avoid the 2007 engines but the builders can not stock pile i.e. they could fill all available 2006 build spots then must cease production unitl the 2007 engines are available which will slowly begin to trickle out this quarter and be shipped exclusively after 1-1-07. The environmental groups are upset with the EPA for not doing "more" to prevent or limit prebuying.

Ecker · 11-06-2006, 04:49 AM

I saw a comment on here but can't find it to respond to on the subject of engine stockpiling. It is not true that Cummins stockplied a lot of '06 engines. There are EPA regulations that do not permit stockpiling of engines and also chassis and body builders from doing the same. Folks could and did pre-buy to avoid the 2007 engines but the builders can not stock pile i.e. they could fill all available 2006 build spots then must cease production unitl the 2007 engines are available which will slowly begin to trickle out this quarter and be shipped exclusively after 1-1-07. The environmental groups are upset with the EPA for not doing "more" to prevent or limit prebuying.

GaryKD · 11-06-2006, 07:39 AM

ecker,
I was just at Spartan (late October) and took their tour. This was a subject that came up. I was told the engine manufacturers' (i.e., Cummins, Cat) last day to make an "old" style engine was September 30, 2006. On October 1, 2006 the only engines they can make are the ones that comply with the new emissions regulations. These engines must also have the new exhaust systems.

I was told there is no date when when a chassis or coach manufacturer must complete selling coaches with the "old" style engine. The chassis/coach manufacturers are using up their stock of old style engines. As an example, Newmar could have enough stock of the old style engines to last beyond January 1, 2007.

I do not know how many chassis Spartan makes each day, I can tell you there were quite a few engines on the self in Charlotte. I did not count them. My guess is there was easily several hundred engines. All of them were the old style. As of when I was there (late October), Spartan had not taken delivery of any new style engines and exhaust systems.

Whoever purchases an 07 coach needs to understand the engine they are getting. This will avoid any problems if the 500 PPM Sulpher fuel is still being pumped after they take delivery. All of us know this should not be happenning, but then again all of us understand reality doesn't always match the rules.

Ecker · 11-06-2006, 08:56 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GaryKD:
ecker,
I was just at Spartan (late October) and took their tour. This was a subject that came up. I was told the engine manufacturers' (i.e., Cummins, Cat) last day to make an "old" style engine was September 30, 2006. On October 1, 2006 the only engines they can make are the ones that comply with the new emissions regulations. These engines must also have the new exhaust systems.

I was told there is no date when when a chassis or coach manufacturer must complete selling coaches with the "old" style engine. The chassis/coach manufacturers are using up their stock of old style engines. As an example, Newmar could have enough stock of the old style engines to last beyond January 1, 2007.

I do not know how many chassis Spartan makes each day, I can tell you there were quite a few engines on the self in Charlotte. I did not count them. My guess is there was easily several hundred engines. All of them were the old style. As of when I was there (late October), Spartan had not taken delivery of any new style engines and exhaust systems.

. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I contacted Cummins last week on the comments made here and talked to Cummins folks this morning before posting my message to make sure it would be accurate. I asked for response to comments and here is the written information.
_______________________________________________
the 2007 EPA regulations take affect 1/1/07 and at that time I believe every engine manufacturer producing on-highway engines will be utilizing some form of exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) for NOx control and a diesel particulate filter (DPF) for particulate matter (PM) reduction. The effective date for the change-over to the '07 engines may vary by engine manufacturer but must occur no later than 1/1/07. I believe most engine manufacturers will take a similar approach to Cummins with limited production introductions in 4Q06 and complete change-over effective 1/1/07.

As to the comment of stockpiling engines, engine manufacturers are not allowed to "stockpile" engines and there are also EPA requirements prohibiting chassis and body builders from stockpiling.

Hitchhiker · 11-06-2006, 09:44 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I believe most engine manufacturers will take a similar approach to Cummins with limited production introductions in 4Q06 and complete change-over effective 1/1/07. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps they made some extra engines to carry them through the period of time late 4Q that it takes to change over to the new ones?

keithmadp · 11-06-2006, 10:35 AM

Possibly, some of the stockpile engines are meant for warranty replacements for future. Just a thought

GaryKD · 11-06-2006, 10:42 AM

I see no conflict with ecker and my posts. I hope none is seen. I read ecker's posts focusing on the engine manufacturers. My posts focus on the coach builder delivering a completed vehicle to the end customer. The reason for my posts is to alert those making a purchase, during this time of transition, to understand the engine they are getting. This will enable them to make sure (if they receive the new style engine and exhaust system) they look before fueling until they are sure the pumps they frequent contain the fuel they can use.

rebelsbeach · 11-06-2006, 04:10 PM

ecker, it was I who posted the comment you were searching for as I was told that Cummins was in fact stockpiling engines by taking possession of them through a "holding company" arrangement.
I will rethink my source and would be happy to provide it...I was told this in person,so I will try and recall when "that" happened.

I appreciate your position and respect your comments.

Lug_Nut · 11-06-2006, 04:51 PM

Yes Ecker you are correct in "engine stockpiling" being addressed and ruled against, however, what Bob is talking about involves companies using any legal loop holes available. Therefore revealing sources may not benefit the parties involved or the end user in the long run.

cwg · 11-06-2006, 06:07 PM

I was told directly by a manufacturer's rep (not Newmar) that his company and many others had quite enough engines in stock in order make units well through many months of 2007. He acted as though the stockpiling of engines was quite acceptable and insightful on behalf of several companies as the new "green" engines were going to have to have newly designed rear caps and rear flooring areas due to the extra heat generated by the higher temps of the engines and not all companies had R&Ded the new designs.