Grey & Black tanks mix, Essex 4508?

[JVR]

While at Disney several weeks ago, and after a full day at the park, I checked the tanks and had 15gal of black and 39 grey, so I decided I would pump the tanks the next day. I left to get WiFi service at the internet cafe, my Verizon air card is really weak most everywhere we go.
I didn't realize my wife was going to wash clothes and dishes, and after about an hour passed and she called screaming water was in the shower and that it smelled like sewage.
I rushed back and the grey tank read 65 gal (full) and the black read 26 gal.

I drained the grey Sani-Con pump for about 4-5 minutes until the level came below 65 gal. and switched to black, drained it while rinsing, drained the grey and rinsed that tank.

Although the grey tank was understandably overfilled, my question is how did the black tank gain 10gal and I assume, contribute to the shower odor?

Also after returning home, too cold to dump, after 1 day the entire coach smelled like a sewer with only 16 gal black and 6 gal grey?

Any opinions will be greatly appreciated.
JVR

[GaryKD]

Hi JVR,
The answer to your questions will need to come from another Essex owner who has skill in the plumbing areas. Too many times I have attempted to help an Essex owner only to find out the Essex is "different". A call to Newmar would also help you determine the answers to your questions.

In general, the black and grey tanks are not connected (above the sewer drain). While black water smells really bad, grey water smells really bad too. To this day, the wife has not been able to determine which smell is grey or black.

On the coach smelling like sewer after you got home, this could be one of the one way vents in each of the sink drains. The vents should be located in the area of the "P" trap, for each drain.

I doubt there is any problem with the black tank venting into the coach.

[Herbdb]

One of the things I noticed on my new Winnebago is that the tanks could be linked accidentally by opening both drain valves at the same time. With the dump drain cover installed this would allow the levels in the two tanks to attempt to equalize through the common dump manifold.

If one is lower or smaller than the other and both had significant volumes this could definitely cause an overflown in one of the tanks.

My unit has a single service panel and I am concerned that the valves could be opened accidentally by someone pulling out the electrical cable. I noticed this on our shakedown trip to Florida in December and I plan to do something to secure the tank valve handles before I use it again.

[Chickadee]

JVR:

Our rig is an 08, Essex (4502) which we've fulltimed in since Jan. of 08. Our gray tank (like yours) is 65 gal., and our black is 45 gal.

Now, I'm still learning all about how the various systems in our rig operate, AND, I don't know what a "Sani-Con Pump System" is (I assume some kind of macerator), nor how it works, but I'm pretty sure that there is no way that gray water can backflow up into the black tank if the black tank gate valve is CLOSED. So.... if this Sani-Con system requires that both the black tank gate valve AND the gray tank gate valve remain open all the time, then, it seems to me, that the ONLY way that the waste water in the gray tank can physically communicate w. the sewage waste in the black tank has to be through this Sani-Con device. (Ya think??)

Keeping in mind I don't know this Sani-Con system, I gotta believe, however, that the black tank gate valve is not supposed to be perpetually left open and should only be opened when one decides to dump that black tank, then, closed again. Likewise, even with a macerator pump type system, I'd also think that the gray tank gate valve should be left closed until owner elects to dump it.

Now,....if that's your question,....ie., that indeed both gate valves were closed and it still appeared that washer water overfilled the gray tank then proceeded to backfill and add gray wash water into the black tank as well,......THEN, you've either gotta talk to Stephen King, the horror/mystery writer , OR....talk to the highliner shop in Nappanee.

Sure would be interested in hearing what you find out. OH...where ya parked currently??? Good Luck. Steve & Lynette

[JVR]

Chickadee,
The Sani-Con is a macerator pump that is connected at the outlet where your sewer hose connects, the only difference is the Sani-Con pumps it out and the sewer hose simply dumps it. The advantage of the Sani-Con, in my opinion, is the hose is small and flexible and stays connected and you simply lift the 4"pvc connector from the park sewer line and flip it over screw a cap on the outlet and you don't have an open sewer line stored in your bay.
I don't open the gates together, I typically dump black while rinsing and fill with fresh water to 3-4 gals. Next, I dump the grey and don't usually rinse the grey but after dumping I always close the valve.

With all this said, the fact that the black and grey definitely mix when there is an overfill situation from either source, which has occurred 3 times and Newmar states the tanks are not connected at any point. But Newmar is not always right and depending on how many people from Newmar you ask a question is about how many different answers you will receive. If I were to fill through the black rinse and let it overfill the water comes out of the shower floor drain. If I overfill from the grey tank side it still overflows from the shower, but adds water to the black tank level. It is too cold to do anything with it now but I will as soon as the weather becomes reasonable, I have an idea of a very simple test to confirm and isolate the problem.

We are back home at SML in VA after 6 weeks in Key West, Orlando, and St. Augustine, but while it is nasty cold here, Florida hasn't been very warm since we left New Years Day.

["007"]

Your right Newmar knows their right because they see the plan layout as being right.
A sewer pipe shouldn't fall out of a floor flange if its installed correctly either but it does happen just be aware.
Some bathroom sinks will flow into a black tank and a gray tank will flow into your shower when it over flows by design. But a black should not flow into the gray tank and cause your problem.
A washer dryer should only be use when you have full sewerage hookup the gray tank is not large enough to do wash with out full hookup.
With your use of valves doesn't seem likely gray flowed into black, so plans to check is your only choice.
You could use a flexible fish and push through drains to see where it winds up shower, washer drain maybe sink drain if you have 2 baths one sink would go to black tank.
Just some added advise before you leave your coach check your faucets to make sure they are off because you may come back to find bath floor covered in water, better yet get in habit of turning off water at water faucet outside.

[Chickadee]

REALLY confusing now:

So you guys are saying that there IS some kind of connection (pipe/line) between the gray water tank and the black tank on our Essexes???????.... EVEN when the gray AND the black gate valves in your water/sewer bay are FULLY CLOSED?????

You'll still have to convince me.

I know and agree that an overfilled gray tank will back flow into the shower by design, and, although we've never tried it, we've assumed that an overfilled black tank would simply back up into the toilet!!!

My belief is that (not withstanding an installation error) there is absolutely NO means (NO connection) between black and grey unless both the black and gray gate valves are simultaneously OPEN!!!

What am I missing here???? Steve

[KSDP_PA]

Why didn't your wife open the grey tank before running the washer ?

["007"]

Steve your statment is correct there should not be a connection between the two tanks unless through your two valves. JVR says he has used valves correctly when dumping and connected to sewerage.
He has to try and find out what is going on with his sewer system.
Your coach has no problem if its not happened to you.

[a k]

I've left the washer on and flooded the shower once.You'll only do it once. I got lucky,it didn't go over the edge.Always leave the grey valve open when connected and never wash closes unless connected to sewer. Black tank isn't connected in my Essex, but sometimes it indicates a little fuller in the Black tank than what it is. And the Grey tank has a twang to it also.
If you dump grey when it is close to full it has a tendency to suck out the shower drain. That might be what you smell. Run a little water in the drain. Blame the smell on the dog. That's what I did.

Also if you find your Grey full and not connected,pull both valves with the cap on and let some Grey run into the black. You'll have a little mess when you hook up ,but with the grinder you have ,not a problem.That Splendid uses some water.

[Flagelpater]

FWIW

The seals at the Gate Valve (s) could be leaking, allowing, although slowly, one tank to flow into the other.

After Dumping, open one valve at a time. With the valve open run water at each sink to determine IF one bathroom sink is dumping into the Black tank.

Do not trust the tank indicators. Tip the coach towards the Dump side when you dump for troubleshooting purposes.

From what I have seen in the MH Industry it is possible the Black and Grey VENT plumbing could be connected before going out the roof. This could lead to a crossover condition as well.

Are the Black and Grey tanks mounted at the same level in the coach? I would like to think the Fresh is on top with the Black and Grey below on the same level.

[a k]

It will come out of the shower before it gets to the vent. If the valves were leaking when they are closed, you'd have about a quart of crap come out when you took the cap off the dump line. If you don't , the valves aren't leaking. The fresh water is below the grey & black. grey dump is higher than the black.

[FlyingDiver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by a k It will come out of the shower before it gets to the vent. If the valves were leaking when they are closed, you'd have about a quart of crap come out when you took the cap off the dump line. If you don't , the valves aren't leaking. The fresh water is below the grey & black. grey dump is higher than the black.

He's got a sanicon. He doesn't have to take a cap off the pipe to dump.

joe

[a k]

Then he's leaving the valves open?