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Old 01-27-2015, 05:37 PM   #1
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Help! Ventana 3636 or Dutch Star 3736

So we are currently in a dilemma. We are looking to purchase or order either a Ventana or Dutch Star...we are first time RVers and want to start with a shorter unit that will drive easily and get into some campgrounds and state parks, etc. we are planning to upsize (maybe) to a tag in a few years. We test drove a Ventana LE and my husband loved it...the ride was great, comfort steer was great, coach was quiet....so when we sat down and actually looked at what we could get for a little more money we realized Ventana would be a little nicer, but still a nice beginner coach. However, when we started looking at Dutch Stars it seemed like a good step up as well...but we have some concerns about the short Dutch Star 3736.

450hp engine on heavy chassis? Handling issues? We test drove some shorter diesels and they didn't drive nearly as well as longer units (other brands, not Newmar). For you DS3736 owners, how do you like how they drive?

Is a DS 3736 an undesirable unit compared to the tags? Salespeople are steering us away from ordering, and we don't see many of them available across the country. Salespeople are pushing for the Ventana.

Is gas mileage going to be comparable to the tag? If so, are we just doing overkill with the short DS?

We are really trying to make the right choice here because if we get something nicer at the onset, we may stay in it a few more years instead of trading up too soon. We love the style, options, and level of the Dutch Star, but some of you with more experience on the road may have some good reasons why we should go with one model or the other. My husband won't buy the DS until he drives one, but finding one to test drive is going to be challenging, especially since we want to test drive that specific length and floorplan.

Thanks in advance!

Stacy and Lee
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Old 01-27-2015, 06:09 PM   #2
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Lots of exciting times ahead!

Let me start with some of the simple things.

450 HP on a 37' coach is never going to be a problem. It will get you anywhere you want as far as MH safe roads. The only way you could have any problem is with a big trailer hauling bricks. LOL You should also get pretty good MPGs with that set up.

A 37' coach will have roughly the same basement space as a 40' tag in the Newmar line. Of course you will get a bit more upstairs storage with the 40' models.

You didn't mention which Ventana you were looking at but I don't know why you would be steered from a DSDP if the models are somewhat similar. Perhaps they are steering you in there own best interests?

If your goal is to have the most access to the most kinds of older parks then that has to be part of the equation. However, keep in mind that many folks use longer coaches for comfort and a toad to get to other places. BTW...a 37' coach could make you a hit if you are thinking of tailgating in it!

If you have the finances to have a "starter" unit and then upgrade without worrying too much about resale value then you have lots of options. If, OTOH, you are thinking long term commitment then use caution in skimping on your purchase now.

Floor plan issues generally are the primary feature you want to put high priority on. It is always tough to get it right the first time so be patient. The biggest thing you won't be able to imagine is just how much stuff will fit into your coach. Storage is important for FTers but if you see this as a unit to take long trips on, even up to 3 months (or more), but keep a home, then you might not need as much. Your traveling style will play a huge factor on that.

GOOD LUCK!
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Old 01-27-2015, 06:25 PM   #3
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Thanks for the reply Sky Boss!

I was actually wondering if buying the DS vs the Ventana at approx. a $60000 increase would be a wise decision. The Ventana and DS that we are interested in are the 3636 and 3736, respectively, very similar floorplan. We understand all the technical differences and specifications of both, and we were actually wondering if the 450 hp with a shorter chassis would HANDLE worse (horsepower is definitely adequate). In other words, is it built so heavy and so overkill that it's a different handling beast altogether?
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Old 01-27-2015, 06:37 PM   #4
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To me it is very simple, let the floor plan decide and don't worry about gas or diesel. If you decide based on want/luxury rather than need/budget, then there are plenty of others who can help you with a good luxury choice up to, I've heard 600 hp and tag axels. If you want to justify diesel, then buy 40+ length and that is perfect. If you want to justify gas, buy below 40+ length.

If you truly want shorter, shorter is 30 ft or less, in an acceptable floor plan. On the other hand, there are plenty of owners who squeeze longer and make do in those campgrounds...even if they have to space hunt.

Also remember that many owners are happy and like it when people buy similar rvs and think similarly.
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Old 01-27-2015, 06:48 PM   #5
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Maybe the dealer is steering you to units already in stock or on order? We've been looking for DSDP 4375. While at the Redmond FMCA rally in Aug., the factory rep said Guaranty had one on order and it would be in shortly. We found out last Friday that it was supposed to be off the line on Jan, 20th. and it was ordered in May. Newmar is basically sold out of 2015 units and people are experiencing 3 to 4 month waits.
To us the DSDP is worth the extra money and we've owned two so far.

Hopefully you won't get any "gas" mileage in a diesel! If you try it be aware that the repair bill will be expensive!
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Old 01-27-2015, 06:50 PM   #6
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We are very happy with our 2012 Dutch Star 3735 which is actually 38'10". Our DS is equipped with a 400 hp Cummins ISL which is the same engine block as today's 450 hp. We tow a fairly heavy 4x4 pickup truck and are quite satisfied with the power and handling of the coach over 22000 miles.
A tag axle model may be slightly better handling but we have never felt unsafe or even uncomfortable in strong crosswinds with or without passing trucks. We tow at 62 to 65 mph or slower depending on conditions. Our mileage is about 7 mpg but I don't keep close track of it. Tag axle coaches probably get slightly less fuel mileage than comparable 2 axle coaches due to additional weight and rolling resistance. I have no concerns that the chassis is more than adequate for the hp and the weight of the coach. I don't think the cargo capacity is much different between a 37xx and a 40xx model.
We also enjoy the comfort drive and the fit and finish of our DS every time we take it out.
I think dealers generally want to sell what they have on hand. I know of at least one Newmar dealer who does order 37' models for their sales lot.
Search this site for many threads on buying and ordering from Newmar dealers including options, factory customization and factory delivery.
While there are other fine brands on the market, the sales, warranty service and performance experience with the Freightliner/Cummins/ Newmar combination has been more than satisfactory for us.
Good luck with your dilemma! It is a happy choice to have..
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Old 01-27-2015, 06:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slydog View Post
Thanks for the reply Sky Boss!

I was actually wondering if buying the DS vs the Ventana at approx. a $60000 increase would be a wise decision. The Ventana and DS that we are interested in are the 3636 and 3736, respectively, very similar floorplan. We understand all the technical differences and specifications of both, and we were actually wondering if the 450 hp with a shorter chassis would HANDLE worse (horsepower is definitely adequate). In other words, is it built so heavy and so overkill that it's a different handling beast altogether?
The DSDP 242" wheel base compared to the Ventana 228" wheel base could be something to look at as an indicator of driving stability and available basement space. Longer is better. I don't think the motor would make any difference between those units if all other things were the same.

HOWEVER...if I am reading the brochures correctly, the Ventana is only 360 HP. It will do the job with just a little less excitement.
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Old 01-27-2015, 07:04 PM   #8
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Help! Ventana 3636 or Dutch Star 3736

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slydog View Post
So we are currently in a dilemma. We are looking to purchase or order either a Ventana or Dutch Star...we are first time RVers and want to start with a shorter unit that will drive easily and get into some campgrounds and state parks, etc. we are planning to upsize (maybe) to a tag in a few years. We test drove a Ventana LE and my husband loved it...the ride was great, comfort steer was great, coach was quiet....so when we sat down and actually looked at what we could get for a little more money we realized Ventana would be a little nicer, but still a nice beginner coach. However, when we started looking at Dutch Stars it seemed like a good step up as well...but we have some concerns about the short Dutch Star 3736.



450hp engine on heavy chassis? Handling issues? We test drove some shorter diesels and they didn't drive nearly as well as longer units (other brands, not Newmar). For you DS3736 owners, how do you like how they drive?



Is a DS 3736 an undesirable unit compared to the tags? Salespeople are steering us away from ordering, and we don't see many of them available across the country. Salespeople are pushing for the Ventana.



Is gas mileage going to be comparable to the tag? If so, are we just doing overkill with the short DS?



We are really trying to make the right choice here because if we get something nicer at the onset, we may stay in it a few more years instead of trading up too soon. We love the style, options, and level of the Dutch Star, but some of you with more experience on the road may have some good reasons why we should go with one model or the other. My husband won't buy the DS until he drives one, but finding one to test drive is going to be challenging, especially since we want to test drive that specific length and floorplan.



Thanks in advance!



Stacy and Lee



You can outfit a Ventana with most of the things the DS comes with and still save a lot of money. What you can't get is the 450 HP, side radiator, IFS and heated floors. Pretty much everything else can be added to the Ventana. Do a search here. This are a lot of discussions on VT vs DS.

We just went through the DS vs VT process before ordering our VT 4037. Our Ventana is pretty much maxed out and came in a lot more affordable for us. With the short length you are looking at, the only downside of the 450 is the side radiator taking up exterior storage. Both engines have the same torque. The extra 50 HP is mostly eaten up driving the side radiator. EDIT: I just realized the shorter VT has a 360 not the 400 ours has. That would push the equation more towards the DS.

It's more about IFS and budget that should drive the VT vs DS decision. For us the VT won out.
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Old 01-27-2015, 07:07 PM   #9
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We bought our 3736 DS to use at least 6 months out of the year, not as a starter unit. We don't have many miles on it but it handles great! We purchased ours in the beginning of October and have lived in it 75% of the time. I am guessing that the units you test drove did not have comfort drive and we're not Newmars. This is my first a Newmar after owning RV's for the last 37 years Class A's, Super C's, and 5th wheels.

Almost sounds like you need to find a new Dealership.
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Old 01-27-2015, 07:42 PM   #10
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Thanks for all the responses! It is a great dilemma to be in. I think the main dilemma is that for a few years, we want to get into a majority of campgrounds and parks. we plan on full timing. We could get the most bang for our buck and get a 45 foot tag DS or LA (our original plan) and NEVER trade up again. But I think we need to get roadworthy with a shorter unit that we can actually maneuver and perhaps figure out what our final coach needs to be. When we decided that, we abandoned the London Aire idea and looked very seriously at our options. We started by looking at gas units. That was a nonstarter for my husband. Noise, no power, wanted a diesel. So then we looked at used diesels that were short. We drove a beautiful 2012 tiffin allegro red 34qfa that was priced close to what we could get a new equivalent tiffin for, and it handled and drove terribly according to DH. Also drove a Fleetwood Excursion 33 footer and it was noisy and didn't ride well either. Interestingly, test drove a Thor Palazzo 36.1 and it was a dream to drive. We actually were more enthused about that one but they had some slide issues and workmanship issues that were just unacceptable. So....back to Newmar it is, and we just like to buy new, had too many reservations about preowned units. But the shorter Tiffin was what has concerned me about a powerful motor on a shorter chassis. I think that's fine for the DS we're interested in. But in order to drive one, which is an absolute requirement before buying, we have to go thousands of miles. We got into the Tiffin thinking it would drive great and found out it wasn't....test driving is a must.
Also, the dealerships we are talking to are ordering our unit, they don't have either unit we want. So it's a mystery why they recommend a less expensive unit.
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Old 01-27-2015, 07:51 PM   #11
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You can outfit a Ventana with most of the things the DS comes with and still save a lot of money. What you can't get is the 450 HP, side radiator, IFS and heated floors. Pretty much everything else can be added to the Ventana. Do a search here. This are a lot of discussions on VT vs DS.

We just went through the DS vs VT process before ordering our VT 4037. Our Ventana is pretty much maxed out and came in a lot more affordable for us. With the short length you are looking at, the only downside of the 450 is the side radiator taking up exterior storage. Both engines have the same torque. The extra 50 HP is mostly eaten up driving the side radiator. EDIT: I just realized the shorter VT has a 360 not the 400 ours has. That would push the equation more towards the DS.

It's more about IFS and budget that should drive the VT vs DS decision. For us the VT won out.
An hydraulic fan takes less HP than a direct drive engine fan according to what Cummins says.
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Old 01-27-2015, 08:19 PM   #12
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In my opinion, get the Dutch Star so you can get 450 HP, side radiator, IFS and heated floors....all really good options!
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Old 01-27-2015, 08:28 PM   #13
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If you've got the money, get the DS. All things being equal, we would have preferred to get the DS over the VT, but then again I'd like a London Aire. In the end having a few hundred extra a month to enjoy the MH made more sense for our situation.

It sounds like the price of the DS vs. the VT isn't a major factor for you. Go with the DS, there is no downside.
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Old 01-27-2015, 08:57 PM   #14
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When we bought our Dutch Star in 2014, the difference in price between the 40' Ventana and 40' Dutch Star was $40K, not $60K. We were sitting at the desk ready to sign for a Ventana when I decided to get the Dutch Star and get all the things on my wish list, IFS, side radiator, 450 HP and several other items.
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