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Old 09-16-2018, 07:10 PM   #1
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Hershey Show - my thoughts/observations

I am posting this here even though it is not all Newmar related, but this is where I post most often. It is simply a bunch of things I took away from the show this year.

I attended both Friday and Saturday. I will NEVER go on Saturday again. It was a complete madhouse. I truly don't know how the dealers/vendors do it. So many rude and inconsiderate people. At times there were over 20 people in a 40' MH with kids running everywhere. I would never even consider purchasing a unit that was at a show - they take such a beating!

So I will start with Newmar. They were very well represented. Although I had a past negative experience at one of the RVOne stores, I thought they represented the brand very well and were very professional and not pushy at all, and seemed eager to answer any questions customers had and earn thier business. A number of Newmar "people" were there, including Matt Miller (I did not personally see him), but I did see Michelle there working hard as always. They had all lines represented from BSS up to London Aire. One of the BayStars had an outdoor kitchen which I have not seen on many Newmars. The upgrades to the new DutchStars were nice for 2019. The steps are new and are chrome? Never seen those before. Also it appeared that the flat phone chargers were standard now on DS? I thought this was interesting because I did NOT see one in the 2019 MA on the passenger side. As was mantioned in another post, the new windows in the MA and LA adjacent to the the living and dining areas appeared much larger even though they probably wern't, and they even cutback on the valences on those to give a more "open" look, and it certainly does. Our first comment was "they don't open?", so while they look nicer, they are certainly less functional. I think they should offer both options. I also noticed the driver window is different on the 19 MA and LA (not sure about DS). I spent a lot of time in the MA since I have a 2018, and I will say that I like the matte floor for 2019 more than the porcelain in the 2018's, but I do not care for the new 2-tone furniture. The entire dash has been redone and I have to say it is AWESOME - this is the only thing that made me have slight buyers remorse. Everything is more sleek, the large screens look amazing, there is a grab rail mounted horizontally in front of passenger, they moved the dumb cup holder position from up high on the passenger side down to the side and integrated it into the piece that holds the switches, and moved the battery disconnect and cargo lock switched to immediately inside the door as opposed to around to the side. Two large, functional drawers are in center, and all USB ports and 12V ports are actually visible, as opposed to have to "feel" for them as they are recessed in the 2018's. I could not see anything on the digital dash because it was turned off, but they also moved the cruise onto the turn signal stalk (which I did not like), so you can use one side of the smart wheel (I assume) to navigate through the digital dash. They also decided to illuminate the toggle switches in the overhead compartment above the driver, which mine are not (maybe they should be?), but if they are not I am going to ask if they can retrofit, because every night we have to shine a flashlight in there to see which switched we need to press . I did not spend as much time in the London Aire, but I will say the couch in there was one of the MOST comfortable pieces of furniture (not just RV) I have ever sat on. The "show special" prices were less than 25% discount so I am curious as to what people paid as RVOne is generally one of the most aggressive discounters among the big dealers. Finally, I will say that most people see the Newmar brand as top of the line. People who walked into these coaches for the most part were incredibly complimentary of the styles and finishes.

I did spend some time looking at Tiffens, and even met Bob Tiffen in person. I had no idea who he was but he came right up to us and started talking to us. While I would personally not consider buying a tiffen because of the insulation issues (all of the AC vents were sweating so much they dripped on our heads!), I would have a hard time NOT buying one from Bob because he is such a genuinely nice guy . They did have some very cool sinks in the Bus' (farm sinks in kitchen and cool textured patterns in the bathrooms), and I think their linear drains in their showers that have the Tiffen lablels are very cool. I also noticed they used Splendide (sp?) washers and dryers which I wonder if they are superior. The discounts on the Tiffins were pitiful - -between 10-15% on the markdown signs.

I also spent some time at Entegra. They are really focusing on the more budget oriented class A market and I think this is a mistake. I got to speak with a "higher up", and asked if they were considering moving the Anthem up to the K3/500 Spartan chassis and he flat out told me "no, due to price point". I commented that there was so little difference between Aspire/Anthem now, that it seemed hard to justiy the Anthem purchase because you are getting so little more. Their one new unit (I forget the name), is a direct competitor with the Ventana line with Newmar and seemed nice. Advertised discounts were less than 25% here as well.

I spent some time at both Freightliner and Spartan to see if I could appreciate the differences between them. I came away feeling like both were great quality and it really is a "Ford vs Chevy" type debate. Personally, I spoke with a couple of guys from Spartan at length about my chassis and they were able to help me a lot with questions I had. They had the K3 Stars and Stripes demo unit there, which I was interested to find out that it will attend 1-2 more shows, then return to the factory to be repainted and then will sit under a King Aire. Freightliner has a cool program where if you join their club for $15 per year, you can buy any Dodge, Jeep or RAM for 1% under dealer invoice. Nice deal if you are looking for a new Toad.

I was also able to meet up with BlueOx and have my tow bar serviced in the parking lot, which saved me a bunch of time and $$$ so kudos to them for offering that.

I was a little disappointed in the overall vendor part of the show. I wanted to buy an AirForce one kit and even the manufacturer Demsko didn't have them. There was too much Scentsy type stuff, campgrounds, chip clips, etc. where I would have liked to have seen companies like Koni shocks, water softener/de-ionizer type people, vendors with mods/upgrades, etc. Don't get me wrong, there were some, but in my opinion for a show that large, not enough.

A final thought on Newmar. They build beautiful, solid coaches. We all know that. BUT, they really need to invest in some technological advances. Hell, even Thors had nice, crisp, LED touch screens with a buch of house automation. A 750K London Aire should not have a tiny dot matrix Silverleaf screen. Their knobs/buttons/dials are almost 20 years out of date. The new dashes are definitely a step in the right direction, and I do hope that very soon they will remove all of the buttons/toggle switches, etc. and and move to something more modern. It is not difficult to do, and the technology is already there and proven.

In closing, this show really made me feel like I made the right choice with purchasing a Newmar. None of these coaches are perfect, but when you have a chance to walk through 200 coaches in one day, you can really appreciate the fit/finish and quality that Newmar puts into their product.
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Old 09-17-2018, 03:39 AM   #2
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Thanks for the review.

Weekends at shows are crazy for sure. We always go on the weekdays prior to their BIG weekend crowds.

BTW...your comment about the insulation with Tiffins and the "dripping issue". I have not heard of this before. Is this a systemic problem with Tiffins as a whole, just at the show, certain models or what?
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Old 09-17-2018, 05:16 AM   #3
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Nice Review,

As far as the dripping AC vents with Tiffin, I am having leak issues through AC vents with my new Newmar. Hopefully it will be resolved.
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Old 09-17-2018, 05:17 AM   #4
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BTW...your comment about the insulation with Tiffins and the "dripping issue". I have not heard of this before. Is this a systemic problem with Tiffins as a whole, just at the show, certain models or what?
We were at the show all day on Thursday and noticed the same thing. To be fair, there was some minor condensation dripping inside on the Newmars as well, but it was worse in the Tiffins. The problem is because it has been warm and humid in Hershey PA all week and these coaches sit with their AC's running non-stop and the coach door wide open all day long. With people constantly coming and going, the air inside the coach can never dry out. The AC vents are nice and cold and when mixed with humid air you are going to get condensation.
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Old 09-17-2018, 05:34 AM   #5
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We were at the show all day on Thursday and noticed the same thing. To be fair, there was some minor condensation dripping inside on the Newmars as well, but it was worse in the Tiffins. The problem is because it has been warm and humid in Hershey PA all week and these coaches sit with their AC's running non-stop and the coach door wide open all day long. With people constantly coming and going, the air inside the coach can never dry out. The AC vents are nice and cold and when mixed with humid air you are going to get condensation.
We had our half bath vent fan open by accident (still not sure how, so there may be a problem with it -- vent was open but fan not on) and my wife noticed condensation on the round plastic supply grill.

Since it was hot and humid with the doors open, I'm guessing in that situation it was less about insulation and more about the wood, louvered cover on the Newmars hiding any condensation, where as the plastic registers on the Tiffin easily show it.
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Old 09-17-2018, 05:48 AM   #6
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Hershey Show - my thoughts/observations

The Canyon Star that had the A/C running was dripping as well from the vents. Don’t think it was the Tiffin design vs. Newmar but the doors open and copious people coming in and out all day.

One thing we noticed is my wife couldn’t get the passenger seat to move. I asked the RVOne salesman if the seat was unplugged and then looked underneath. Someone had either stepped on the wire or something but the wire was broken off. Salesman said that was nothing since by shows end the display coaches will end up with numerous issues.

We have a Newmar now but are torn between Newmar and Tiffin for various reasons if we buy a new coach.
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Old 09-17-2018, 06:26 AM   #7
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Wanted to go this year on Friday, never again on SAT. just a madhouse.

However my last child living at home with us moved out on Friday night ... alas maybe another show .
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Old 09-17-2018, 06:44 AM   #8
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Nice review with one point to make...If doors are left open with AC running constantly, ANY AC system will drip condensation from the registers... Ever been to an open air restaurant/bar with AC running?? Drip drip drip
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Old 09-17-2018, 07:21 PM   #9
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Wasn't trying to knock Tiffen that bad about the condensation issue - simply stating those were the units that dripped on us. They have been known to have not as good of insulation as Newmar or Entegra though.

I did hear a salesperson say to a perspective Phaeton customer that is was the best selling diesel pusher on the market. Is that true? Are more Phaetons sold than any other brand/model? Or was he just saying Phaetons were the best selling Tiffin? I do see a ton of them on the road..
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Old 09-17-2018, 09:41 PM   #10
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I think the Phaeton has been the number one selling class A diesel for like a decade or something.
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Old 09-18-2018, 05:50 AM   #11
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Wasn't trying to knock Tiffen that bad about the condensation issue - simply stating those were the units that dripped on us. They have been known to have not as good of insulation as Newmar or Entegra though.

I did hear a salesperson say to a perspective Phaeton customer that is was the best selling diesel pusher on the market. Is that true? Are more Phaetons sold than any other brand/model? Or was he just saying Phaetons were the best selling Tiffin? I do see a ton of them on the road..
No worries. I'm not a Tiffen fanboy , nor do I have anything against them. Just trying to be fair. Good info on the insulation though. We see tons of Phaetons at Fort Wilderness when we are there. They might be the best selling DP. Nice coach, decent price point.
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Old 09-18-2018, 06:31 AM   #12
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Best selling because there so much cheaper then a Newmar. Tiffen Phaeton is an entry level coach. Newmar is the 2nd coach for someone whose sweat all summee in a Tiffen or Winnebago and there tired of it. They want to stay cool in summer or warm in winter.
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Old 09-18-2018, 07:10 AM   #13
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Best selling because there so much cheaper then a Newmar. Tiffen Phaeton is an entry level coach. Newmar is the 2nd coach for someone whose sweat all summee in a Tiffen or Winnebago and there tired of it. They want to stay cool in summer or warm in winter.
Not sure about the "so cheap" aspect. They are similar price or slightly higher than a Ventana. They seem to slot in between a Ventana and Dutch Start both in terms of standard options and price.

So, they are not equivalent in price or features to a Mountain Aire, but we also aren't talking a bottom basement coach in price or features.
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Old 09-18-2018, 07:22 AM   #14
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Nice review. We usually try to go on Wednesday when the Show first opens. We leave home at 4 AM and catch the show when the doors open. That way you get to see everything with a minimum of hassles.

The lower end Entegra diesel is the Insignia and I would agree that it is a direct competitor of the Ventana. I'm not sure about the gas units that Entegra is now selling. Those were the big sellers at Hershey for Entegra. RVOne also sold 33 Newmars at the Show. Big sales numbers for both Entegra and Newmar.
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