How is your RV experience affected by the complexity of your coach?

[DrPhil]

Neal - We purposefully bought in at the Dutch Star level due to technology considerations - just the right balance of tech and analog. My main worry as you climb up in brand (besides expense) was a computer control screen or something downstream going bad when out on a trip. Maybe this is unfounded, but wanted the option to be able ‘field repair’ if necessary. The one worry I had in the DSDP was the oasis system - the ‘Green Dragon in the basement,’ and we like many others, have had it go down (maiden voyage in fact). However I consider that happenstance to be a blessing as ITR, Newmar and a field tech gave me an opportunity for a free -in the field- tech lesson. Now I am confident that we bought into the right level of tech - including the Green Dragon! -phil

[wildtoad]

One thing I like about buying my BSS is that it does not suffer from too much technology. Simple albeit crummy radio doesnt even have blue tooth, but we get by. No Sirius satellite radio, but we get by. No BOMB for the TV’s and yes we still get by. GPS is a Garmin 770, not some built in thing. We do have two iPad’s but they are our personal ones to go along with our two iPhones so we have all the technology we need while traveling.

My wife just bought a new Kia Sportage with all the bells and whistles and it will be years before she figures out how to use all the features. Me, I’ll stick with my 2013 Sonic.

[GKU]

I'm a techie, that being said I think that with all the new coaches, one of the ways that the different manufacturers can "One UP" each other is with technology. Every year it seems that Coaches get more "Tech Complex". I don't think that is going to stop. After all that's how they get your money!!!

[USMCRET]

The newer coaches sure are pretty and inviting, and I may end up with one in the next couple of years. On the other hand, I really like the simplicity that I currently enjoy. Even with that, every time I go out, something needs attention, and so far, it has been within my means to address. That’s hard to leave behind.

[Waywards]

When technology makes things simpler it's a win. Comfort Drive is a good example. My Allison 3000 transmission is a marvel in my opinion.

Poor interfaces and poor feedback confuse and reduce confidence. My magnum battery panel os a good example of this fail.

Simple interfaces are enabling. The tech behind Google's interface is complex but the interface is simple.

So it's not so much the tech but how it interfaces with me that determines my comfort level.

[gbstewart]

Originally Posted by wildtoad

One thing I like about buying my BSS is that it does not suffer from too much technology. Simple albeit crummy radio doesnt even have blue tooth, but we get by. No Sirius satellite radio, but we get by. No BOMB for the TV’s and yes we still get by. GPS is a Garmin 770, not some built in thing. We do have two iPad’s but they are our personal ones to go along with our two iPhones so we have all the technology we need while traveling.



My wife just bought a new Kia Sportage with all the bells and whistles and it will be years before she figures out how to use all the features. Me, I’ll stick with my 2013 Sonic.

That's why I converted a bus to a motor home nice and simple, and my 2012 sonic doesn't even have power windows

[Finance]

I'm a techie person who designed and installed systems more complex than these coaches, and I consider it a negative. Not because of the complexity, but because of the lack of standardization, documentation, and poor installation practices. That's a recipe for trouble down the road, and Murphy's law says it'll happen in an inconvenient time and place.

[Waiter21]

We don't really "camp". We kind of look at our MH as a portable studio apartment.

I do all the production control software for the company I work for and am semi retired. I have a Cisco virtual tunnel on my laptop so I'm always connected to our server at work, even when I'm gone for three months at a time.

Our first MH was very simple 21 ft Class C, no technology at all.

Our first Class A was almost identical, no technology, It was simple and meet all our needs.

Our current MH (1999 Southwind) still doesn't have any technology..

We have a Dish TV receiver that we bring from home when we travel with an outside tripod antenna.

Our BIG Technology is a ATT Mobley wifi unit that we use when we travel, Its provides connectivity for my laptop. the DWs droid pad, and the ROKU box. ($20 a month unlimited bandwidth)

Thats about the extent of our technology. We havn't run into anything that we miss.

[wildtoad]

Originally Posted by Waywards

When technology makes things simpler it's a win. Comfort Drive is a good example. My Allison 3000 transmission is a marvel in my opinion.

Poor interfaces and poor feedback confuse and reduce confidence. My magnum battery panel os a good example of this fail.

Simple interfaces are enabling. The tech behind Google's interface is complex but the interface is simple.

So it's not so much the tech but how it interfaces with me that determines my comfort level.

I 100% agree, especially with the final thought.

There are several types of technological improvements that truly make things better, and you mentioned two. Comfort Drive and the vastly improved transmissions. Both of which have little interactions with the “user” and are basically behind the scene. Same with the new Gasser Ford engines and 6 spend trannies versus those of years ago. Improved slideout mechanisms fall into that category too.

Electric awnings are a nice, simple improvement until they quit. They are great until you want to tilt one and then have to get a ladder to make it happen.

When the owners manual for a vehicle takes a hundred pages to explain the audio/video systems, dash board lights, things may just may have gone too far.

Automatically flushing toilets are nice until they don’t.

[FLJOE]

We have been full timing since November in our Ventana 4369. The initial delivery demo was a bit "overwhelming" to say the least. Compared to our 14 gas MH and other fivers this thing is full of technology.

For now I am concentrating on basic things that are new to me. Heck, it took me two trips to really start getting comfortable with just my FL controls including the "smart steering wheel" controls.

It will probably take me another 4 or 5 months, but I hope to understand and use all the options that came with the coach. Since I like doing repairs and some maintenance myself I am fine with all that.

[tyoneonit]

In all fairness, living or traveling in a Class A can’t really be labeled camping. Camping is what I experienced as a child, living in a tent for several weeks with my family or as a Boy Scout in an outing.
The Class A lifestyle is beyond even the term glamping.
When we were at KOA at Mt Rushmore last summer a small boy walking by our site asked his dad why we had such a large camper. His dad said it was because some people felt they needed to bring everything they own with them when they went camping. Not really true in our case as we can’t fit the pile of stuff sitting in storage that my DW couldn’t part with when we sold the house and most earthly possessions (thankfully she had no problem selling the snowblower).
Is our 17 DSDP complicated? Yes, but no worse than some of the newer cars and household technology we’ve owned. But it sure isn’t as simple to take apart as my old Triumphs. The problem I along with many others of my age are starting to have is that we have to deal with the effect of CRS....now where the heck is the enter key to post this....

[turbopilot]

Originally Posted by NealC

What are your opinions on the complexity and how it plays with your "camping" experience?...

For those in the higher line coaches, what is your opinion on all your gadgetry?

The premise of these questions seems to be a concern that modern technology somehow interferes with the "camping experience". Not sure what the "camping experience" means. It is obviously very subjective term so there is no right answer or definition.

I have no problems with people who want to live in a world of simple analog devices. What I do have a problem with are very strong opinions by those folks about modern technology who obviously have had no first hand experience with these advanced coaches. Reading NA posts is not going to make you better prepared to render a opinion. You have to experience the machine first hand, including all the warts and joy.

There is a bigger issue here. Modern technology is becoming standard in these coaches. Just like the auto industry it starts in the high end products than rolls down the line over years. For Newmar it began in the KA in 2012 and it is now in the mid range priced NA. I predict within a few years all Newmar coaches will have it.

What does this mean? Anyone buying a 2018 Newmar coach without this advanced technology needs to think about resale value three, four or five years down the line. These old fashion analog coaches still sold today are going to look out of date very soon. The younger generations coming up are very comfortable with technology. They are going to demand it when they buy their first used coach.

As to the issue of complexity and modern technology, again a very subjective term in this context. Complexity is nothing more that an experience in the absence of knowledge. My NA seemed very complex the day I accepted it. Today it is very simple to me because I understand the systems. I understand the systems and how they interact. My "camping experience" is now enhanced.

As I have written many times on these forums, the only issue making my "camping experience" less than perfect is when one of these modern systems fails and there is no documentation available to fix the problem. That is not a problem with modern technology. It is a bone headed decision by Newmar. This very definitely impacts the "camping experience" no matter how you define it.

[Mudfrog]

Originally Posted by Indyspecrace

Somewhere along the way, everyone seems to have forgotten the KISS principal. I agree with many here, unnecessary complexity is a problem waiting to happen . Further, technology obsolescence is a real concern. Less is more

I used to be the guy that had to have the latest and greatest new fangled electronic gadgets. I can't begin to imagine how much money i've spent wasted trying to be one of the first to have them. Call it maturity and/or blame it on my cheapskateness, i've ended up doing a complete 180° with my thinking.

These days, just give me the basics to be comfortable. Air conditioning is something i would hate to have to go without. Other than that, i want to keep it simple. As far as touch screens go, i'll take physical buttons, knobs, dials, and cranks over them any day. Imo, it's plum crazy to put them in vehicles where the driver has to interact.

Our rig has leveling jacks and a slide which are pretty much considered basic features on today's MHs. If i have my way, our next rig, if there is one, won't have either.

[plasma800]

Originally Posted by NealC

I'm a techie, a software biz owner and I love tech. However, ironically and maybe it's A.G.E. syndrome but the complexity of the higher line coaches seems counter to the camping experience, in other words I prefer simplicity. Even at my VTDP level, it's complex. My FPU 1st day was all interior, 2nd day exterior and I was shocked at what you have to know to run one of these. I can't imagine someone renting a coach of this level or higher, no way could they know what to do.

Other concerns is the kludging of technology by a vendor such as Newmar. Trying to bring together the electrical systems, silverleaf systems, suspension systems, all seems like a lot to get to play nice together. Reading some of the NA threads is daunting with the complexity involved and how it must affect people feeling proficient with their coach.

What are your opinions on the complexity and how it plays with your "camping" experience? Do you feel at peace at a campground or traveling with your coach or do you feel behind in what you should know. I have books out that I still need to read/re-read such as chassis, transmission, gen, etc.

For those in the higher line coaches, what is your opinion on all your gadgetry?

Hey man, I agree.

I personally feel though, that the word "camping" is misused.. or a misnomer at best.

I feel a lot of RV's are out of the realm of "camping" and into the world of "mobile apartments" as these units are not campers, but more like apartments

The application of tech appears to me to have been applied haphazardly in the fast paced race to one up each other and/or mimic the creature comforts found in truly high end living buses and tour buses.

And while all that stuff sounds and looks nifty on paper, unless it's implemented very properly, it seems to almost create more headaches than it solves.

My opinion is the last thing I want on vacation or workcation, is headaches.

I go a step further to the concept that I don't even want to maintain an onboard diesel engine and transmission, much less have to reboot my silver leaf system.

The matter is amplified by the fact that I can't even automate my home... Of 3 modern, space age, very nifty on paper ecobee thermostats... you think I can keep all three on my wifi network at once? No way, one is always "offline".... Schlage wifi locks? One works, one doesn't. Garage doors on the network? Maybe, if the wind is blowing from the south and I'm wearing red underwear. Bluetooth to that soundbar? hahaha, china strikes again.. . the manual says it will work, but failed to mention only if your phone is within .5 feet, and you're wearing red underwear.

Like you, I'm a lover of tech, but when I climb in my RV, I want to get as far away from it as possible (except for the fact that I travel with a NAS, an apple tv and emby server...) but hey, that's my own doing and I'm the guy who set that up. I want my RV itself to be simple as pie. Open slides, turn on lights... turn off lights, close slides. At one point, I didn't even want slides (until I didn't have slides , then I wanted them again) If I lived in the thing full time, my attitude would be a little different, but I don't live in mine. AND I LOVE MY ELECTRIC AUTO LEVELERS... I cross my fingers they don't break every time I press the button...

So all of the tech has done me good... it's beckoned me to do my best to live a simpler camping life, and I appreciate that. We spend more time outdoors, more time on bikes, more time fishing, less time rebooting things. Much like when you purge your phone of all but the most important apps, which I did... I now keep only 6 apps on my phone that didn't come with it... and now I'm bored in the bathroom and forced to read a magazine Oh the terror!

That's my take anyway. I know that a lot of folks don't have the same taste for minimalism in systems, and I understand that completely - no judgement.