How is your RV experience affected by the complexity of your coach?

[Gonna_Wander]

Originally Posted by NealC

All of the 2019's are going to be digital dash like the NA has now.

All of the 2019's? Even the Bay Star Sport?

[rlott2k]

Sorry Neil, if you wanna camp get a tent! Technology is rampant to excess. Lots of devices are installed just because they are available even when not needed. Electric flushing toilets? Can’t lift my foot 3” to push a pedal? Then on the converse , lots of this stuff hasn’t been field tested enough to make sure it works as designed. I also have read the NewAire threads as well as others. It’s crazy some of the problems.

[Aegon]

When Henry Ford started cranking out Model Ts, do you suppose folks were saying, “I think I’ll keep my horse” ?

When email was new, did we embrace it or gladly give up snail mail?

Technological change is not new. You can get onboard or watch the world go by without you.

To answer your question Neil, when I use the systems on our NA, I’m very happy for the automation; however, I do hope each & every time that it doesn’t breakdown.

I’ve been successfully fixing my own stuff for 50 years, but the technology is starting to pass me by. I’m going to have to learn how to get help.

[Gonna_Wander]

This is an interesting topic to me, especially since taking delivery of the New Aire. It is tough to answer because what is considered “complex gadgetry” will vary from person to person. Would a GPS qualify? What about powered shades? How about the digital tank readout in the wet bay?

In a broad sense I consider the value of a specific technology within the context of “Is the way this new technology does the thing that it does more useful than the method it is replacing?”

With that as a backdrop here are my views on some of the technology and systems in the New Aire; most of which are in various models from the Luxury Diesel Line.

Powered shades: I really enjoy these and they save time and some body contortions getting to tough to reach blinds. Of course, manual blinds are simple enough and the powered ones are not “necessary.” Neither is a backup camera, microwave, or GPS necessary, but most people are glad to have those.

Silverleaf: I enjoy having so many controls on one screen and it does save time from using different interfaces located in different parts of the coach. Silverleaf is something that I could take or leave though,,,,, if it wasn’t for the MyRozie feature which I love.

MyRozie: This is a wonderful and highly useful feature. With the limited time I have had the New Aire I have used MyRozie in the following ways:

• Received email alerts that temperatures were getting low, and batteries were getting low. This allowed me to take action to remedy before temps got to freezing or the batteries dropped below half.

• While the RV was in for service I could see that they had not plugged it in (as they promised they would) so I could call them and address the issue before my batteries ended up drained.

• I have remotely started the floor heat to warm up the coach before getting home from work.

• I have remotely unlocked the door to let my wife in. She couldn’t find the keys and had forgotten the door code.

• I haven’t had access to the camera feed (a bug being fixed) but think this feature will be helpful in some circumstances.

Multiplex lighting: Very nice being able to turn on lighting throughout the coach from the front, middle and back.

Digital Dash: I enjoy being able to see a multitude of information versus the analog days. However, this is one I could pass on since all the information available can also be seen on a Silverleaf screen. I have not driven at night yet but others have said the screen is too bright and cannot be adequately dimmed. If this is the case, I would prefer the analog dash.

360 Camera System: In my view this is phenomenal and an absolute game changer for confident safe driving. Being able to see everything that is around the coach as well as a clear large view of the back is terrific. In the short amount of time I’ve driven the New Aire I can already tell I am more aware of surroundings and safer. I am much less fatigued while driving because of the 360 views. Some day when the technology gets cheap enough they should make this a mandatory feature.

WiFi Ranger-Pro: Love it. Being able to have all devices (laptop, phones, TV’s, Apple TV, etc) connected to one Wifi Network, one time, is such a time saver when you move from place to place. Being able to use a phone or tablet hotspot to create a full network in the coach is simple and very effective. I’m going to hook up a Blink video camera in the coach (connected to WiFi Ranger Pro) so we can monitor the dogs when away from the RV.

OnGuard Collision Mitigation – Adaptive Cruise Control: I skipped this feature because I had read truckers were having problems with it and it seemed too many were unhappy with the system. However, I love these systems on my cars and will gladly get them on my next RV if the bugs are worked out.

Heated Floors: There have been many posts on IRV2 about the benefits of heated floors. I almost passed on these and am so glad I didn’t. In addition to providing very even heat (and keeping your tootsies warm) they reduce the amount of times your heat pumps or Oasis have to operate so you have less noise from those systems.

I do understand some will think none of these things are necessary, and they are correct. Power windows in a car are not necessary either.

For me, these features add to the enjoyment of my RV experience, they do not detract from it.

Now, one big caveat, I have not had a major system malfunction interrupt a trip and I might feel differently about some of the systems based on what the consequences would be to one of them going down. However, it would depend a great deal on the particular system and specifically what happened from the failure. For instance, on two previous RV’s we had slide failures when leaving the campground. Both times it was a major headache, interrupted our trip, and caused a lot of aggravation. However, I would never consider getting an RV without slides even though I have experienced the pain of them failing. If on the other hand my trip was ruined because the digital dash failed and I couldn’t drive I would feel differently, I would wish to return to analog.

So, Neal to answer your question:

“What are your opinions on the complexity and how it plays with your "camping" experience?”

Well,,,,,,,, it depends

[FatChance]

The problem with high tech RVs aging will not be keeping the software current, it will be the position sensors, switches, voltage and current sensors, electric connectors, video screens, servo motors, etc that will wear out in the earthquake environment of an RV. All of those parts are basically not rebuildable. The other problem will be a service workforce educated enough to diagnose complex systems working for wages that RV owners are willing to pay for.

[turbopilot]

Originally Posted by FatChance

The other problem will be a service workforce educated enough to diagnose complex systems working for wages that RV owners are willing to pay for.

Analog or digital, old bus or new, this is happening right now. Every RV should be ready to go back to school and learn how to service their coach.

See this WSJ story.

[Dan McMartin]

I've often thought about this. All the gadgetry in the diesel coaches, especially the luxury lines looks really cool. It probably is when it's all functioning properly. But I bet it's a nightmare when it's not.

I'd go so far as to say the same about the diesel chassis and all the associated mechanical systems. Nice when it's all shiny, new and working like it should. But when the maintenance/repair bill comes due...

I kind of prefer the simplicity of our Bay Star. Would I have purchased a DP if we wanted to spend that much? Probably. But our experience is much more...well, like Neal said...like camping. And not in a bad way.

We cook meals, watch Netflix, doze in our California king air bed, take showers, etc, etc, etc. We don't have floor heat, a washer and dryer, dishwasher or shower wall, but all that stuff, not to mention the fancy electronics and gadgets, will require maintenance and repair. And what does it really add to our lives? Not much.

I can get up to flip on the lights. Yeah, my coach doesn't drive like it's on rails but neither does my Jeep. I don't know but I think that stuff would just make life more complex and that's sort of the opposite of why we did this.

I'm not knocking luxury coaches. To each their own. But all the bells and whistles don't add much to the experience and over time just seem to cause more headaches.

[AITG]

I'm with Dan. We moved up to our Bay Star Sport from a Lance pickup camper on a dually diesel. We have looked at everything Newmar makes and there is no question that it's nice stuff.
But nothing there is going to make our travels more fun than the BSS.
We talked it over and didn't even want a full wall slide, much less all the electronics. For us, the joy is in the trip...and we're hoping simple equals reliable. 12000 miles in and so far it is working out for us.

[Rvlegaleagle]

It has been a while since I have been on here Neal you still have great posts

Actually your question is one of my biggest concerns when I order my 2019 Bay Star 3401 in the next few weeks (Apparently Newmar did share with me that the 3401 was in the top 5 models of the 2018 Bay Stars and presumably it will still be available in 2019 although they couldn’t or wouldn’t say. I really like that particular floor plan for traveling and it is an inch under my 35 ft max

For me, I do NOT want any more technology! I am very glad to hear it is mainly still installed in the higher end models. Hopefully it will not trickle down for the Bay Star in 2019 Simple RV ref, stove, 2 slides, a std micro with RV circuits and wiring works just fine for me

KISS has always withstood the test of time and I am trying to practice it more and more. It is EXACTLY why I am going to see this beautiful County of ours (Mexico & Canada) RELAXING in a RV Such a philosophy certainly keeps you sane in this insane world we seem to find ourselves.

If you use your coach a lot or are full timing it is important to me to be able to self diagnosis and fix or replace what is not working. And from what I have read on here you will certainly need to diagnosis, fix or replace many things in a RV. Hopefully I will make it under the tech bubble for the 2019. Being self sufficient, or as much as you can be, is the way to go as far as I am concerned.

Have read all of the comments on here and there are many. My favorites

“Get on board, the technology train is leaving the station!” Oh good, glad I missed that train think I will go RVing instead

“The problem is in 10 years the software will not work on current hardware.”. Oh isn’t that the truth! Like the computer and everything else tech these days, designed to keep you off balance, keeps changing and will keep you paying and paying. Every advance also seems to take more of you as a person and your personal privacy along with it Pretty soon all you will have to do is wake up and the AI will tell you what you have to do for today and cook you breakfast with God knows what kind of food

“Old tech has a half life of 50 or more years. New tech, 3-4, maybe 10.” Amen. So far my freedom (I mean flip) phone still works great and I can actually talk with the other person

My favorite quote though has to be this one “I think that stuff would just make life more complex and that's sort of the opposite of why we did this.”. Exactly, at least for me too

It always comes down to personal preference and whatever makes you happy

[NealC]

It would be interesting to measure how long a RV owner keeps their RV based on the level of Newmar they own. For example, how long does a BS owner keep their RV vs. a KA? My belief is the higher line RV the shorter the owner actually keeps it before rotating for a new model. Measuring from those that buy new.

[Rvlegaleagle]

Originally Posted by NealC

It would be interesting to measure how long a RV owner keeps their RV based on the level of Newmar they own. For example, how long does a BS owner keep their RV vs. a KA? My belief is the higher line RV the shorter the owner actually keeps it before rotating for a new model. Measuring from those that buy new.

That is where the being happy with you have comes in Maybe the Bar Star is the way to go....lol. Only kidding Newmar

[MRUSA14]

Originally Posted by NealC

It would be interesting to measure how long a RV owner keeps their RV based on the level of Newmar they own. For example, how long does a BS owner keep their RV vs. a KA? My belief is the higher line RV the shorter the owner actually keeps it before rotating for a new model. Measuring from those that buy new.

I think you are correct, but not everybody buys new. When that new KA is traded on another new one after a few years, somebody else will buy and enjoy it. What happens when it gets to be 15 years old on its second or third owner? Will all the hi tech stuff still be working? Will it be repairable without extraordinary effort or cost? I fear not. I enjoy the hi tech stuff but the thought of having to fix it gives me the heebie jeebies. And some of it is just plain poorly implemented (user interface), poorly documented, or poorly supported.

[NealC]

Originally Posted by MRUSA14

I think you are correct, but not everybody buys new. When that new KA is traded on another new one after a few years, somebody else will buy and enjoy it. What happens when it gets to be 15 years old on its second or third owner? Will all the hi tech stuff still be working? Will it be repairable without extraordinary effort or cost? I fear not. I enjoy the hi tech stuff but the thought of having to fix it gives me the heebie jeebies. And some of it is just plain poorly implemented (user interface), poorly documented, or poorly supported.

I stated new for the comparison because I think those that buy used may keep them much longer. I could be wrong. People that flip RV’s probably love to flip as much as those that love to flip new. We’ll never know.

I keep my cars 10+ years. We’ll see how the RV goes.

[YC1]

I was the go to guy for complex electronic repairs for 40+ years. Motorola used to put out the best service manuals in the world. They had block diagrams and detailed explanations on how things were supposed to work.

If the industry would provide decent block diagrams and schematics for each component instead of throwing a few manuals in the coach things would be much easier.

My 08 Endeavor had a beautiful block diagram of the entertainment systems. But nothing on the leveling system for example.

It has taken me years to gather enough information on my coach to give me confidence I can diagnose most things.

That said, the transmission control is connected to the level control, the level control is connected to the parking brake, the slide out is connected to the ignition key>

This all sung to the tune we remember. What nonsense not putting out a simple block diagram.

I was lucky and managed to get a CD with schematics from Monaco in 09 but it still does not have decent block diagrams.

I cannot remember one trip where something did not break or need attention. But alas, that is the way with a house living on a fault line.