How to remove electric driver's window "wiper" seal

[rodekyll]

2001 Mountainaire DP 4096.

The seal/wiper at the outside bottom of the electric window is perished. It has stretched, warped, and swollen to the point of being useless. I contacted Newmar with my VIN and they sent me what they are calling the replacement.

Except that it arrived an inch or so shorter than the window is wide, and they folded it to put in in the shipping box, permanently distorting it. So the new seal came too short to seal anything, wrapped tighter than its minimum bend radius, and warped. It's not suitable for anything.

Assuming I can acquire a correct, undamaged wiper, I'm having a hard time figuring out how to remove the old one. I've been doing peripheral disassembly and studying on it all day, but I can't discover the secret to accessing the screws on the old wiper. I've also done a lot of searching on this forum to no avail. So I need to ask -- who can tell me how to get at that wiper?

Also, is this a Newmar-specific part or can it be had generically? I can see where the return shipping on supplier-damaged parts is going to get expensive quickly. If I can source the stuff locally I think I have a better chance of avoiding damage.

Thanks

[Dutch Star Don]

Without seeing it, I'm guessing you'll have to disassemble the armrest and wall panel under the window. Once it's opened up, you'll probably have to remove motor, track and window and then replace seal.

[Spk64]

I replaced mine when I had to remove the complete window assembly and repair the drip pan below window.
Might find some photos in this thread.
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f103/02-m...ak-262351.html

Keep in mind that the window does not create a water tight seal. Water does leak some and there is a pan in bottom that allows this water to drain.

[rodekyll]

Spk64-- good information. My setup is exactly like yours. With the level of thought the engineers put into it, I'm not surprised that the wiper is designed to leak and requires complete disassembly and removal of the entire window enclosure to replace. As a service item it makes perfect sense to hang it in space and build the bus around it.

I don't think I'm gonna go there. I think I'll drill through that completely stupid cross member to access the screws that they deliberately trapped behind it. If I destroy the cross member I figure whatever I replace it with will be superior to this sad excuse for design.

I'm trying to think of any other vehicle roll-down window that is intended to leak all down the inside of the door. Even the lowly VW did it better.

[rodekyll]

Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don

Without seeing it, I'm guessing you'll have to disassemble the armrest and wall panel under the window. Once it's opened up, you'll probably have to remove motor, track and window and then replace seal.

Don, I love the optimism. Sadly, this $22 seal will require major structural disassembly to get anywhere near. And if I use the part that Newmar supplied, I'll fix it to the exact present level of failure for the exact same reasons.

[Dutch Star Don]

How about taking a clear silicone squeegee blade and securing it to the exterior window frame as a wiper/sealer.

[rodekyll]

Hmm. I like that direction. Why fix something this complicated to the same, flawed level? I'm becoming the guy I detest - - the one who can't think past the parts book. It happens whenever I try to quit smoking. I could find some suitable material to line the old one with. Maybe an actual wiper blade glued to the old wiper as a backing.... Or maybe the wiper from a Chevy....
It might could be fixed without taking out more than the rolling window pane.

[LPBolens]

Virtually every outer window seal that I have ever seen on ANY wheeled vehicle allows some water to bypass the seal. It is there to control rattling, not to exclude water completely. That is why there are drain pans or weep holes down at the bottom so water will not stand in there and rust out the bodywork. It is not a design flaw.

[rodekyll]

I agree that water weeps past almost any seal. But my old seal has gone soft and warped. Several inches are pulled away from the glass leaving 1/4"-wide gaps. The new one is also warped. So even if it was long enough to fit, it won't lay flat either. That warpage makes a series of open access points to the inner door that directs most of the water running down the window inside the coach. Add a mud dauber in the slop trough drain tube and you've got a problem overnight. Have it happen in storage and it could total the interior.

Looking at the old and new warpage pattern, I think I see why this has happened to me, why it looks familiar in terms of other pictures I've come across in my research, and why it will no doubt happen again upon installation of the new one. The plastic wiper is folded to fit in a square box. It stretches and takes on a memory of its bends. The old one and the new one are flared out ("fluted" at the bends) in the same pattern, and I suspect that the curving is permanent. If I do flatten it out for installation, it will always want to recurl. Easily averted with a sensible container and/or better materials and design, but . . . .

Materials and packaging issues aside, the crossbar that blocks access to the wiper mounting screws -- about 10 holding it I think -- is held in place by screws going into its ends through the outside of the inner door frame, 2 per end. Look at photo#2 of reply 9 of SPK64's clicky-link posted above. (He's done a perfect job of describing the complexity of pulling the inner door stuff.) The two screw heads are pictured. That's the design flaw. It's the only possible way to design the window frame such that a consumable piece like the wiper requires complete structural disassembly to remove the screws holding an unrelated obstacle.

All other window seals and frame joints, the brittle trough and 40 or so screws get disturbed in the process. So something that reasonably should take a couple of hours to fix in a straightforward fashion takes tens of hours of major surgery and risks damaging other seals. It's intimidating to the DIY'er and seems like a LOT of money to spend at the shop having a simple wiper replaced, so it doesn't get done.

The interesting thing is that they use the sensible bracketry that would make this an easy job in adjacent parts of the construction. For example, the motor track struts directly next to it are a snap to remove (shown in SPK64 #7). They know about other ways of making the screws accessible too, that they demonstrate in the basement and cabinet construction but did not use here.

I came across several topics about wiper/seals perishing. Most were unsolved or in non-repair context, some gave duct-tape-level fixes (some rather ingenious), but I read nothing about how any of them replaced a bad one until this discussion. SPK64's link describes why -- who would want to go through all that when we all know about the slosh trough? They never go bad, right?

So the $22 wiper that was doomed to an early failure because of bad packaging and material memory doesn't get changed out, water runs past it faster than the trough can drain, and irreversible damage happens to the subfloor. All because the unassociated cross strut screws are unnecessarily impossible to access.

And because of inferior materials, avoidable packaging damage, and way more complexity to do a simple but necessary replacement of a consumable, the failure of which can cause structural damage to the bus, I'll say it's a design flaw compounded by a materials flaw compounded by a damaging packaging choice.

I'll take a look at it again in the morning. It's raining tonight. . . .

[azSkier]

I just went through this with my coach. I was successful.

I did order the new seal from Newmar. It was long and I cut it to length. You might be successful ordering the seal from my coach. Call newmar and ask them how long it is.

Like you, I had no interest in removing the entire window assembly just to replace the seal. I proceeded carefully and faced a good amount of uncertainty.


I have looked at spk64 pictures, but really cannot visually compare that window with mine. But, here is what I did.

With my window completely down, the screws were about 1/8 inch below the glass. The screws could not be accessed with a screw driver. But, I was able to remove all the screws with needle nose plyers and a flathead screwdriver (small, like a jewelers screwdriver). The plyers were used to rotate the screw while the screwdriver was used to lift the screw out of its path.

I didn't want to lose the screw, so I actually used the smallest needle-nose vice grip I could find. It took a while, but I moved the 8 or so screws and removed the old seal.

This seal is not as securely installed as it appears. The new seal has pre-drilled holes suggesting very specific locations for screwing the seal to the window frame. Getting the new screws started was expected to be a huge problem.

But, the screws actually fit anywhere. The window frame has a channel that runs the length of the window. It is just wide enough to give the screw some bite and hold everything in place.

I didn't have to worry about aligning the screw holes in the seal with any screw holes in the window frame.

So, I basically reversed the removal process. I used the needle nose vice grips to place the screw in the seal's screw hole and positioned the screw on the window frame screw track. I used a flat head screw driver as a lever to press the screw into the track and used the plyers to rotate the screw.

Once the screw threads started biting, I didn't need the lever and continued using the plyers to rotate the screwhead. The screws were very tight in the screw channel and turning the screw was often very difficult. But, I only had to get the screw in far enough to let the window glass slide by without scratching.

It is a bit tedious, but I did manage to get all the screws in place and the new seal securely installed.

Afterwards, I did have problems with the power window not moving. I needed to spray the felt track on the new seal with silicon spray to reduce the friction against the window.

[AZDave]

I had the same issue with the outside seal and used Spk64's write up to do my repairs. I found that the window was originally made by Atwood but no longer supported so was glad Newmar was able to supply all the parts needed, both inner and outer seals. Took a couple phone calls and photos to get the correct screw cover but I found them very helpful. If you found this problem because of water on the floor inside like I did then I am certain your drip tray has cracks in one or more corners and leaking. The only way to replace or repair the drip tray is remove the window. The drip tray for my coach was no longer available. It is ABS plastic so repaired using ABS pipe glue and fiberglass window screen as reinforcement. Then filed the bottom ends of the window frame to give them more room in the tray.

[rodekyll]

Yes, I first noticed the rotted floor in the general area as I was doing my pre-purchase inspection. Due to the carpet and slide I was unable to find the extent of the damage. At the time I thought it was the slide seal. I knew though that I'd be charting new territory for myself as I moved into the floor repair. My hope was that the damage was not as bad as it appeared, and I made a very reasonable deal on the rig.

I got lucky with my speculation, I hope. Although there have been other unforeseen problems, this particular damage was a fairly straightforward fix. I was able to cut out a 7x3' section of floor and reconstruct it from the beams up. I got the vinyl planking roughed in a few days ago. I redid the flooring end-to-end. But before I can close up that driver's side inner door, set the cove trim and bolt the pilot chair down, I need to get this wiper issue settled.

AZskier -- Good write up! If I had healthy hands and arms I'd try the twist-and-shout method. The grooves in those extruded struts should make replacement easier than trying to match up holes. I've got a set of snap-on pliers that would fit and grab the screw heads nicely. I'd replace them with fasteners meant to be grabbed that way. But my biceps are broken which makes doing repetitive twisty motions impossible. And I have advanced RA, which plays heck with my finger dexterity and control -- my hands get tangled up in themselves a lot. So I have to approach some of these chores with less than surgical precision.

I plugged the drain hole in the trough last night. With pouring rain and a constant breeze the trough filled in less than three hours. The good news is that the trough is now watertight. The geniuses that owned the rig in the past had a problem with the lower window stop. It looks like the window had been able to roll past the track end and jam open. They fixed it by drywall screwing in a stopper made from a piece of wood cut to length. They drove the screws through the side of the trough, one high and two low. They used no sealant. As the wood rotted away in the plugged trough, water began leaking out the screw holes. It had probably been doing that for a decade or more.

["007"]

Roadkyll, when your living room slide is out rain water runs down slide wall side under its window to ridge bottom of slide side and will run into coach on floor if the silicone seal build up is missing to allow the water on that ridge to flow off before entering to the coach floor.
I would check all your slides for this dam of sealant on ridge to run off slide water before entering to coach floor.

[rodekyll]

Thanks for that, 007. I have been over the slide seals exhaustively, since I had to remove and replace a lot of it (and tip the slide) in order to access the damaged flooring. I'm regularly watching for leaks everywhere. So far the structure seems watertight. The toilet and galley plumbing were leaking. I removed and rebuilt the toilet and replaced a lot of the house plumbing. I think this wiper is the last of the leaky points.

Oh -- and I owe you some pictures. I'll get on it as soon as this floor thing is under control.