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Old 03-27-2017, 02:16 PM   #1
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HWH leveling and ride height

After using HWH hydraulic leveling at site, preparing to leave I always start engine, let some air build, then hit auto store, when green travel light comes on, in gear and drive off. this am went thru same procedure, except for in gear and driving off, as I had to get out of coach as someone was trying to get my attention out side the door, he pointed out that my coach was not aired up to ride height, both front and rear air gauges showing about 125#, and green travel light on as usual, I let it run for about 15 minutes still did not air up to ride height. I then took off ebrake and put it in gear, without even moving forward, it almost instantly came up to ride height, worked fine for the 300 mile leg of trip. after getting to destination I ran it through a couple of leveling/travel cycles with the same results, ie. not coming to ride height till in gear. Air leveling works as it should. This is not how this system worked on other coaches I have had with HWH hydraulic leveling, ie. would come to ride height when green travel light came on without having to put in gear. Any comments appreciated.
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Old 03-27-2017, 04:26 PM   #2
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I had the exact same problem on my 2016 MA. While in Nappannee last fall for a routine service appointment, I asked the tech about this. He checked it out after some investigation, determined that the leveler signal cable was wired incorrectly. He then rewired the cable correctly.

What I gathered from his technical answer was that the engine builds up air pressure and the leveler system should sense a specific PSI in the tank and then inflate the bags. Putting the tranny in "D" triggers this inflation also, but the tank PSI level signal was missing on my system. He rewired the cable to sense the tank pressure in order to trigger the system to inflate the bags.

Mine now works correctly, but I press the "travel" button when the tank pressure builds to speed up the process. Putting the tranny in "D" still works also.

This may be a problem they frequently have or see from production, as he seemed to have seen it before.
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Old 03-27-2017, 04:51 PM   #3
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I had the exact same problem on my 2016 MA. While in Nappannee last fall for a routine service appointment, I asked the tech about this. He checked it out after some investigation, determined that the leveler signal cable was wired incorrectly. He then rewired the cable correctly.

What I gathered from his technical answer was that the engine builds up air pressure and the leveler system should sense a specific PSI in the tank and then inflate the bags. Putting the tranny in "D" triggers this inflation also, but the tank PSI level signal was missing on my system. He rewired the cable to sense the tank pressure in order to trigger the system to inflate the bags.

Mine now works correctly, but I press the "travel" button when the tank pressure builds to speed up the process. Putting the tranny in "D" still works also.

This may be a problem they frequently have or see from production, as he seemed to have seen it before.
Interesting response; the 2017 LADP uses the HWH 725 system. In my previous coaches (Tiffin) I had plenty of phone/email time with the techs @ HWH. This is the first time I have heard of a signal input from the air tanks. It will be interesting to chase this down. Even looking on the electrical schematics it fails to mention any input from the air tank. The electrical system for the HWH leveling system is complex. Releasing the park brake will send a signal to the pilot valves to move to travel position and thus start inflating the air bags. A signal from the control panel (auto store) will also reposition the pilot valves. I learn something new about Newmar coaches everyday. Thanks for the input.
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Old 03-27-2017, 05:59 PM   #4
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"resullivan"......something sounds amiss, but I wish mine worked that way as the default. That way yo could fire up the coach and use the compressor without lifting the coach.
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Old 03-27-2017, 07:09 PM   #5
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"resullivan"......something sounds amiss, but I wish mine worked that way as the default. That way yo could fire up the coach and use the compressor without lifting the coach.
Now this is something I am very familiar with as I had this problem on my old coach. The coach should not rise when you just start the motor up. You have to push the auto store pad. The problem is HWH had a batch of bad control panels back in 2013 & 2014. I changed the original out once and then less than a year later the replacement panel failed. I replaced that with another panel (all under warranty by HWH) and never had another issue.

Both of my previous coaches 2010 Tiffin RED and a 2013 Tiffin Phaeton both had HWH issues. The RED would not dump the bags when you level (loose connector) and the Phaeton had bad control boards.
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Old 03-28-2017, 05:08 AM   #6
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Since the system up until now worked going to ride height after store, it makes me suspect of a parts/system failure ? other than the keypad is there another control board for the HWH leveling system? any Ideas where it may be located?
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Old 03-28-2017, 05:56 AM   #7
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Occasionally the chassis manufacturer installed suspension dump valve hangs up in the open position. On my 2008 DS it happened twice in 7 years, once on my 2015. Apparently a closing signal goes out again when the parking brake is released or the brake pedal is tapped. In all cases you could hear the air escaping.
By the way, since the HWH jacks retracted by spring force, it helps retract to start it before the engine
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Old 03-28-2017, 06:56 AM   #8
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Since the system up until now worked going to ride height after store, it makes me suspect of a parts/system failure ? other than the keypad is there another control board for the HWH leveling system? any Ideas where it may be located?
There are two other items that could cause your malfunction. There is the I/O module mounted on top of the pump/valve unit and there is the park brake relay. These are rare to fail. If you have not done so, check all connections on back of control pad and the large connector on the I/O module.

For further troubleshooting, take note of the lights on top of the I/O module when you push the auto store and auto level on the control pad. A diagram of the I/O module is in the attached manual.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf HWH Manual.pdf (312.8 KB, 41 views)
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Old 03-28-2017, 08:24 AM   #9
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wayne, i believe you're on the right track.
it sounds like one of the wires on the large plug at the end of the potted control board is not seated in the connector.
disconnect it, do a close visual inspection, and pull on each wire. then push it in. this is a problem ive seen on three of the 725 boards.
resullivan, please let me know what you found. i can always use good information.
it gives me a head start on diagnosing other coaches.
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Old 03-28-2017, 08:27 AM   #10
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Just now got off conference call with Newmar and HWH, did about an hour of testing with HWH, they have decided that it is possibly two problems, maybe neither of which are theirs ? they are going to research ? we are now entering the circle of blame, I have requested that the Newmar CS rep contact all parties involved to come to some resolution of this issue. I have gone through all of the suggestions given here on the forum with no results so far, thanks to all who have contributed so far.
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Old 03-28-2017, 08:51 AM   #11
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Just now got off conference call with Newmar and HWH, did about an hour of testing with HWH, they have decided that it is possibly two problems, maybe neither of which are theirs ? they are going to research ? we are now entering the circle of blame, I have requested that the Newmar CS rep contact all parties involved to come to some resolution of this issue. I have gone through all of the suggestions given here on the forum with no results so far, thanks to all who have contributed so far.
I am very interested in the outcome of this issue as we are picking up our LADP in 2 weeks. The finger pointing is more of a concern then the actual issue. Is this a norm for Newmar, take no responsibility, solve no problems until the last recourse, leave owners on their own, and turn their backs and walk away. My experience with my previous coaches (both Tiffins) this would never happen; if the companies would not stand behind their products, Bob damn sure would. Tiffin fixed many issues that were Freightliner or Cummins or HWH, it did not matter. If the owner was not happy, Bob was not happy.
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Old 03-28-2017, 08:55 AM   #12
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i havent seen that blame problem with newmar, especially now that we are working with them on all their hwh installations. hwh will get it right, no matter where the fault lies. ive been associated with hwh since 1973, and have worked full time for them from 1998. we stand behind our product.
but yeah, when i ran the service dept of a dealership in illinois, i found if two products were connected some how, it was always the other product that was at fault. that is an easy way to get the other person to do the diagnosis.
silverleaf is the only product that is integrated into some of our systems. ive not found too many times that the problem was theirs. both parties have to have an interest in getting it fixed.
im very interested in the solution, because, ill face the same thing sooner or later. i keep a log book on odd problems like this one. i can get an answer from hwh factory, but i want it from your point of view.
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Old 03-28-2017, 10:29 AM   #13
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i havent seen that blame problem with newmar, especially now that we are working with them on all their hwh installations. hwh will get it right, no matter where the fault lies. ive been associated with hwh since 1973, and have worked full time for them from 1998. we stand behind our product.
but yeah, when i ran the service dept of a dealership in illinois, i found if two products were connected some how, it was always the other product that was at fault. that is an easy way to get the other person to do the diagnosis.
silverleaf is the only product that is integrated into some of our systems. ive not found too many times that the problem was theirs. both parties have to have an interest in getting it fixed.
im very interested in the solution, because, ill face the same thing sooner or later. i keep a log book on odd problems like this one. i can get an answer from hwh factory, but i want it from your point of view.
thanks, paul maddox
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Paul,
Do or have you in the past traveled down to Red Bay. If so, I met a HWH rep there about 2 years ago.
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Old 03-28-2017, 02:27 PM   #14
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azpete, I removed the plug and pulled/pushed the wires as you described the best I could, made sure air tanks were full, hit auto store with the same results, did not air up, releasing the parking brake and it airs up immediately to ride height.
Thanks
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