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Old 12-03-2018, 08:12 PM   #29
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Having the brake light on while descending a hill with any sort of engine/ exhaust retarder does not make sense. You are using the device to keep from gaining more speed then you feel safe, not for slowing down. I used to keep the jake on, and use thew high/medium & low settings to maintain the speed I wanted for the hill.



If people get used to seeing lots of brake lights going down a hill, when the driver ahead actually hits the brakes, to slow down for what ever reason he feels, any one behind him, will not realize right away that he is doing something that they are not likely expecting.



Now, if you are the type of driver that uses the jake, and gears to bring the rig to a complete stop, then illuminating the brake lights may make sense.



Unless you are going up a hill, most retarders will not provide enough braking effect to warrant the brake lights. I would prefer they stayed off until I actually hit the brakes.



AS far as 4 ways, I was taught that you turn them on when you are going 20 MPH under the posted speed, unless there is signs stating a lower posted minimum speed limit. Whether you are moving or not, an 20 MPH or more difference, is a hazard. If I see traffic ahead coming to a stop, or close to one, I turn on the 4 ways. If there is a hazard in the roadway, that drivers behind me may not see, I will turn on the 4 ways, or tap my brakes, to catch the attention of drivers behind me. Want to give me a ticket fine, I'll still use them to alert drivers around me if there is a hazard in front of me, or by my actions. Safety first.



Brake lights on while descending 5 miles of down grade, is not helping you, or anyone behind you. Should we also have the brake lights illuminate when one downshifts the trans to slow down?


While Googling this, I came across where the first versions of the Tesla, had the brake lights activate every time the the driver took his foot off the throttle, and the regenerative braking automatically kicked in. Apparently caused several issues of road rage, with the driver behind, thinking the Tesla driver was brake checking him. So after software version 5, they changed the parameters.
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Old 12-03-2018, 08:24 PM   #30
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I would bet a search of the various state laws, one would find several that state the brake lights should only come on when the brakes are applied. And further, you will find that retarders do not fall under brakes.


A quick look through several states, it seems most are worded like "which shall be actuated upon application of a service brake". So I guess there is not anything prohibiting the illumination of the brake lights by other means.
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Old 12-03-2018, 10:02 PM   #31
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The Incite program is what Cummins uses to make program changes. To save time and money, I would email Cummins and have them give you the steps for turning off the brake lights. They'll give you the sequence to follow. Some of the techs are not that familiar with where to find the parameters in the program.

I plan on having my cruise control reconfigured, so the engine brake engages at 2mph or my set cruise speed, versus 6-7 mph. Last time I had this done, they charged one hour labor to access the ECU.
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Old 12-03-2018, 11:18 PM   #32
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Redding Freightliner was able to find the option in the ECM that would disable the brake light activation with the exhaust brake, no matter what changes they made, it made no difference in the actual operation of those lights. My problem was that I was overheating the brakes on my TOAD on long downhill grades, I finally gave up and decided to just live with it and deactivated the brake unit in my TOAD. Yes, I know this was not the best option, but burning the brakes on my TOAD did me no good either. JH
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Old 12-04-2018, 08:31 AM   #33
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You can use the service brake relay to activate toad brakes. That way toad only brakes when u hit brake pedal. Im planning to fo this but have not yet.
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Old 12-04-2018, 08:34 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micpib1 View Post
Redding Freightliner was able to find the option in the ECM that would disable the brake light activation with the exhaust brake, no matter what changes they made, it made no difference in the actual operation of those lights. My problem was that I was overheating the brakes on my TOAD on long downhill grades, I finally gave up and decided to just live with it and deactivated the brake unit in my TOAD. Yes, I know this was not the best option, but burning the brakes on my TOAD did me no good either. JH
So Redding Freightliner found the option but it did not turn off the brake lights on exhaust brake.....Right?

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Old 12-04-2018, 03:20 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micpib1 View Post
Redding Freightliner was able to find the option in the ECM that would disable the brake light activation with the exhaust brake, no matter what changes they made, it made no difference in the actual operation of those lights. My problem was that I was overheating the brakes on my TOAD on long downhill grades, I finally gave up and decided to just live with it and deactivated the brake unit in my TOAD. Yes, I know this was not the best option, but burning the brakes on my TOAD did me no good either. JH
Isn't the TOAD brakes connected to a trailer braking controller?
ie: the brake lights are independent.
I haven't put together a TOAD system so just checking.
On my trailers, the trailer brakes are never connected to the brake lights. I seem to remember the brakes are the blue wire...

Common would be to hear that the trailer brakes pulse with the hazard lights. Sure sign it's mis wired.
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Old 12-04-2018, 03:45 PM   #36
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Quote:
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Isn't the TOAD brakes connected to a trailer braking controller?
ie: the brake lights are independent.
I haven't put together a TOAD system so just checking.
On my trailers, the trailer brakes are never connected to the brake lights. I seem to remember the brakes are the blue wire...

Common would be to hear that the trailer brakes pulse with the hazard lights. Sure sign it's mis wired.
I run the RVI 3 braking system and it is not, measures the rate of braking and applies accordingly
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Old 12-04-2018, 03:57 PM   #37
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I got lectured at a truck stop while I was getting fuel. Had a trucker come over and said I was going to burn my brakes up coming down a hill. I told him my brakes light are activated when I use the exhaust brake. I don’t think he believed me as he just shook his head and walked away. Kinda makes you look stupid running your brake lights all the way down a hill. Looks simple, following to see the solution.

trucker lecturing seems odd, around here they are HORRIBLE drivers, texting, stuck in left lane...


fwiw, my high mounted center light comes on with the exhaust brake..i know this as i can see it in the window of the toad on the trailer. so i reckon the side one do as well,

sort of an attention getting to those whom tailgate, and we all know that no one tailgates an RV
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Old 12-04-2018, 04:11 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dav L View Post
Isn't the TOAD brakes connected to a trailer braking controller?
ie: the brake lights are independent.
I haven't put together a TOAD system so just checking.
On my trailers, the trailer brakes are never connected to the brake lights. I seem to remember the brakes are the blue wire...

Common would be to hear that the trailer brakes pulse with the hazard lights. Sure sign it's mis wired.

The OP is just interested in crippling the brake lights when using engine braking (without interest in whether there are downsides). Understood .... but it's not likely anyone will provide a specific solution that may involve liability issues ... this appears to be Freightliner's position. The OP did not specify why he wants to do this or what he is towing (what Toad braking system is being used).



Most solutions will require a wiring diagram specific to the OP's vehicle.
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Old 12-04-2018, 11:26 PM   #39
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I run the RVI 3 braking system and it is not, measures the rate of braking and applies accordingly
Stuart W, you are saying that your TOAD braking system is connected to your "trailer" brake controller and not your brake light circuit?
That's kinda what I expected. I have been cleaning out the barn and sold a couple of cars recently and will probably look for a TOAD compatible vehicle. Maybe a Wrangler...we were able to do without a car on our soutwest trip, renting a car here and there to get around in the cities. Next year is New England which will be worse to find parking near points of interest so a TOAD might be important.

I thought the OP was saying that he burned out his TOAD brakes due to them trying to stop his RV on decel. And that's why he wants to disengage the brake lights from decel.
With a wiring diagram, can't believe that would be that hard to do....I wouldn't want to do it though.
I would get a brake controller and fix the TOAD problem though.

Could care less on a trucker that doesn't want to understand what's really going on. Always glad to learn from them though.
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:55 AM   #40
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This may help explain; https://rvibrake.com/products/rvibra...AAEgJ_kfD_BwE#
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Old 12-05-2018, 04:45 AM   #41
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This looks like a much improved version of what I use, the Brake Buddy. I have had my Brake buddy for 10 years, and it still works great. They both operate on inertia, with no installation required except for the break away switch.

The rvi3 is a lot smaller and doesn't press against the seat. If my BB ever fails, I will most likely replace with this.

Thanks Stuart for posting this info. I didn't know about this option.
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Old 12-05-2018, 06:13 AM   #42
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Works great, sorry to say I had a terrible experience with the Tire Patrol tire sensors and ended up returning them. They say they are one inch in diameter, but actually they are closer to 1 1/8. This became a problem on the front Alcoa wheels, the sensors touched the rim causing one sensor to come apart, tire went flat! The manufacturers fix was close to a 1 inch valve extensions temporarily while they stroked me along for 3 months while they said they were making their own shorter custom extenders, than said it was to expensive and left me hanging. I was not comfortable with the sensors sticking out more than the rim. In addition the readings were never exactly the same, I could set the pressures with a digital pressure gauge and the variable between same size tires was as much as 3 PSI. Lastly these are plastic welded sensors, meaning they do not have user serviceable batteries. The manufacture says they will last 2-3 years, at such point they have what they call a “reasonable” battery program, cost is $125 plus shipping to and from, they say this price includes new seals and firmware updates if available.
Just wanted to be clear that my endorsement of the RVI3 Brake unit does not extend the RVI Tire Patrol.
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