I Want, Stop Lights OFF - When Exhaust Brake is ON...!!!!

[palehorse89]

Originally Posted by Mikeae

Why do you want to do this? I like the person behind me know I'm slowing down. I don't understand the reason

If you read the entire thread, the OP wants to "Maintain" his speed going down hills without the lights on, not slowing down..........and his trailer brake's are also activated.....
Semi's don't have brake lights on when using their engine brake going down hill............
Mine did the same, pulled a Diode mini fuse as directed by Spartan, no ECM work from the Insite program. But I did reprogram my cruise settings and downshift defaults using the Cummins Insite Program.

[jtovo]

The 2 posts that address having adjustments made that I would like to have done are Duchstar Don & the OP.
Don,
I would like to have the exhaust brake activated when using the cruise control, is this possible?
SLS,
Were you able to have what you wanted accomplished?
Thanks

[rogerray45]

My 2011 MA was wired the same way. I pull a trailer so it would activate the trailer brakes when I used the exhaust brake. I called freightliner and after a long explanation they finally emailed a wiring diagram with a note as to which wire to detach (the wires all have numbers on them). Freightliner didn't want to tell me how to do this but finally gave in. They claimed it is a saftey issue however of all the freightliner trucks I have owned, none of them had the brake lites hooked to the exhause brake. The newer coaches could be wired different from my 2011. The wire was behind the dash so I had to pull the dash part way out the get at the wire. It wasn't an easy job but it did work. No more hot trailer brakes!

[Dmorris2020]

I have the same brake light problem. My toad brakes are actuated by deceleration and the brake lights from the coach. Both have to be present to activate the toad brake. So when my brake light comes on with the exhaust brake it actuates the toad brake and burns up the pads.
I’ve been into Cummings and they said they couldn’t disconnect or change the system. I went to FL and they said the same but gave me a wiring diagram. It seems neither wants to help.
Let me know if you find a solution.

Thanks

[Rotten-Red]

Originally Posted by BillJinOR

A jake is not a “brake” in the sense of quickly stopping . its almost like taking your foot Of the throttle on a manual transmission gas car. Should your brake lights come on when you downshift your stick shift car ? Or take your foot off the throttle?? After all you are slowing Really? Come on!
Every commercial truck I drove did not have brake lights activate with the jake ! Never heard of a lawsuit ! don’t know what crazy stuff the new trucks have maybe some Enginering bright guy is now installing them.
I already said why I had mine disconnected ( diode) on the Winnebago. If you don’t and you are towing a trailer with electric brake controller that’s activated by brake lights , you will burn up your brakes in the trailer in short time or worse yet have a fire coming down a pass.
The jake is meant to maintain speed down a hill not stop the vehicle at a stop light but hey I was trained years ago . I’d rather not burn up my trailer

[Superburban]

Originally Posted by Rotten-Red

I also agree, almost 50 years of driving truck full, and part time, I never heard of a jake turning on the brake lights, until I read this thread. I think it is a motor home thing. The factory does not think you guys are able to tell if the motor home ahead of you, is slowing down.

[musicmanrich]

Thanks! You just described exactly what I do, hence why it is dangerous to have lights on with exhaust brake.

[FL420]

Every city transit bus, school bus and motorhome I have driven activates the brake lights when the service brakes are applied AND/OR when the auxiliary(or supplemental if you prefer) brakes are activated. I wouldn't want to have it any other way. The drivers behind you who can't see around you usually have no idea of what is going on in front of you and can't predict when you are going to slow down and at what rate.

The only time I don't have the Exhaust Brake armed on my coach is when the Cruise Control is engaged and that's because the Cruise Control can't operate with the Exhaust Brake armed. I play the EB and CC SET/RES switches on the left side console like a one-armed piano player except when cruising on the highway with CC engaged.


The comments on this thread about heating up trailer brakes caught my attention and got me to thinking it may be a valid concern for some people WHEN they are pulling a trailer, tow dolly or 4 down toad. My American Car Dolly has electric brakes controlled by a Tekonsha P3 proportional brake controller. I believe, but I want to investigate further, that the Tekonsha will not apply the dolly brakes until it senses actual deceleration and will apply the dolly brakes appropriate to the rate of deceleration it senses. If I find out I am wrong I can always set the braking on the controller to 0.0 which effectively turns the electric brakes off. If I want dolly braking I can apply as much braking force as I want by manually shifting the paddle switch on the bottom of the controller head.


On the subject of whether or not the law or regulations require the brake lights to activate when the auxiliary braking system is activated a quick search of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards revealed FMVSS 108 which states Stop Lamps on BOTH vehicles and trailers must be:


Steady burning.
Must be activated upon application of the service brakes. When optically combined with a turn signal lamp, the circuit must be such that the stop signal cannot be activated if the turn signal lamp is flashing.
May also be activated by a device designed to retard the motion of the vehicle.

[Hangfive]

Could be some liability involved if you get rearended with the lights disabled

[BillJinOR]

FL420... I just bought a American dolly , I passed on the brake controller as I already have one under the dash. Sorry but Bad news , it’s activated by your brake lights .. since I don’t actually have it I’m only going by what Gary told me on the phone in passing. I’d definitely check if so ....
Exhaust brakes on your dolly brakes are on . Looks like you’ll need a solution also. I disconnected mine [emoji4] my cargo trailer or the dolly ( both electric brakes ) would be fried if I didn’t
This may be Bus standard , I wasn’t a bus jockey but it sure wasn’t on any big truck I drove for more years than I care to think about. And I’m sure not concerned about liabilities after all those years . As I said my service brake lights STILL WORK and the jake sure isn’t slowing me very fast if at all downhill when I use them but hey it’s This looks like a thread that nobody will believe anything but what they believe is right so time to move on.

[FL420]

Originally Posted by BillJinOR

FL420... I just bought a American dolly , I passed on the brake controller as I already have one under the dash. Sorry but Bad news , it’s activated by your brake lights .. since I don’t actually have it I’m only going by what Gary told me on the phone in passing. I’d definitely check if so ....
Exhaust brakes on your dolly brakes are on . Looks like you’ll need a solution also. I disconnected mine [emoji4] my cargo trailer or the dolly ( both electric brakes ) would be fried if I didn’t
This may be Bus standard , I wasn’t a bus jockey but it sure wasn’t on any big truck I drove for more years than I care to think about. And I’m sure not concerned about liabilities after all those years . As I said my service brake lights STILL WORK and the jake sure isn’t slowing me very fast if at all downhill when I use them but hey it’s This looks like a thread that nobody will believe anything but what they believe is right so time to move on.

I just went back and refreshed my memory on why I bought my Tekonsha P3 Prodigy brake controller. I researched many hours over several years on how to set up a rig for full timing. Everything was on the table and many compromises were made to ensure I could have my motorcycle and my DW could have her beloved Kia Soul.


When I started looking for a tow dolly I drove up to Gary's and spent the entire afternoon at the his workshop behind the house finding out all I could about the American Car Dolly he and a few of his fabricators were hand building there. I then drove back home and spent the next month or so researching all his competitors to see if any of their products were better made or better suited for my purposes. Gary's product was clearly superior to the others.


When I drove back to pick up my new dolly Gary tried hard to convince me I should buy the time delay style controller he was selling. I had done extensive research on electric brake controllers and it was pretty clear that proportional brake controllers were far better than time delay controllers. According to very many ratings and reviews the Tekonsha P3 was the best of the bunch.


As I understand it while it is true that the P3 receives a 12 vdc current from the brake light wiring that voltage does not activate the brakes themselves. The amount of voltage sent to the brakes is controlled by the P3 based on settings input by the owner/operator. The higher the voltage sent to the brakes, which is controlled by the P3 and limited by the limit previously input by the operator, the more braking force is applied. Normally, the voltage is increased by the amount of deceleration sensed by the controller. The operator can use his thumb at any time to move the switch on the bottom of the controller to the left to increase the voltage sent to the brakes up to the previously set maximum voltage.


I have the upper limit on mine set to several tenths of a volt lees than the voltage which will lock up the dolly brakes when the weight of the car is on it. On the few occasions when I am towing the dolly without the weight of the car on it I have to remember to set the limit to 0.0 volts so the unloaded dolly brakes don't lock up. It's no real biggie if I forget because it would only apply the maximum voltage under the heaviest braking.


Long story short, I don't have any concerns about my electric trailer brakes overheating when the Exhaust Brake activates my brake lights.

[BillJinOR]

Like you I had a p3 in my Winnebago and like you had it set to almost max without lockup under hard braking . This is when my dolly overheated the brakes at the bottom of cabbage hill .. I only had the jake on no real braking. I was able to maintain my speed without service brake use . My assumption correct or not was that some brake pressure was being applied to the dolly even without the g force activation, at least enough drag to really heat them up Perhaps not . I’ll never know. I set it to 0 and had no problems ( but no brakes) I didn’t want to mess with it so you know my solution.

[FLJOE]

Originally Posted by musicmanrich

I am so glad to hear someone else having this issue. I have a 2015 Entegra Anthem in which I have accumulated 96,000 miles. With a Florida tag and running down the long 5 to 6 degree declines heading into the LA area in CA the truckers assume I have no experience with downgrades and that I am burning up my brakes. Little do they know that during the 10 or so miles down I probably touch my brake peddle 3-4 times. A friendly trucker at the bottom of a long decline tried to diplomatically give me advice on that. That was the first time I knew of the lights associated with the exhaust brake. Would love to eliminate that .

If what a OTR trucker thinks bothers you that much then go on several of their forums and put it out there that these late model DP are designed that way. Don't disable a safety feature on your coach the manufacturer put in place just because you want to impress someone with your abilities descending a steep grade.

[FLJOE]

Originally Posted by mike5511

Makes him look stupid for not knowing that IMHO. I think I read where all the new semis have the feature as well. I'm retired so I don't keep up as good as I used to.

Some of them very well may have that feature. A couple times out by Bristol this fall I noticed a couple that were certainly "riding" their brakes down some grades. So either they had that feature or they were actually the stupid ones.