I'm getting a new Brite-Tek roof this week...

[chofujohn]

Hi Guys,

I'm getting a new Brite-Tek roof this week at a Newmar dealer in Carthage, MO. But, that's not the real story. The roof was diagnosed as bad about 3 weeks ago and the dealer in Springdale, AR (McGaugh RV) told me it would take $10k to $12k to do a whole new roof. I was not happy to hear that bad news. The motorhome sat on their lot for several days and in the meantime I called the factory and talked with a service writer (Phil). He's very knowledgeable. I asked what they charge for a whole new roof on a DSDP 3852 and he said, "$4,900". I called McGaugh and told them the factory would do the job for less than half what they were expecting to charge me. Their response was, "well, then you should go to the factory to get your roof done". I cancelled all the work I had scheduled and contacted a Newmar dealer 2 hours away who quoted me $5,600. This is a whole new roof including all new Luan.

Since I had hit a tree limb driving it at night coming back from taking delivery the insurance is kicking in to buy the roof. The adjuster said the roof is definitely damaged from an impact and not normal wear and tear. That's a critical distinction as normal wear and tear isn't covered by insurance.

Please accept this post as it was intended. I'm sure McGaugh RV has plenty of loyal customers who swear by them and not at them. That said, I won't be going back to them and they've got all kinds of awards on display in their lobby. Nope, I'm thinking I'll stick with authorized Newmar dealers from this point forward provided I can find one when I need help.

Regards,

John

[chofujohn]

I'd sure appreciate you fellow Newmar owners giving me your opinion on something.

My 2002 Dutch Star has ducted A/C in the ceiling. Neither a/c unit is working properly and I'm going to replace them both. The question is would you replace them with straight a/c units or heat pumps? The reason I'm asking is because a service writer is telling me to save money and go with straight a/c's. His reasoning is that heat pumps are more complex, more expensive and don't work efficiently as ambient temperatures drop. So, what else is new, eh? Here's the kicker. He says the heat strips do a lot more than people give them credit for doing. He says he's just relating his own personal experience and that the strips will do a reasonable job down to about 50 degrees ambient. Then he turns on his furnace.

My reason for leaning towards heat pumps was because as a new full-timer I'm going to do a lot of boondocking in and around the National Parks. I wanted to be able to conserve LP and only use the furnace during more extreme conditions. Then I talked with a friend who suggested that I use my home 110 volt ceramic floor heaters with their tip-over safety feature. He also suggested that I should put one in the basement to prevent freezing in the plumbing. He also said that the basement heat will leech up into the coach by warming the floor. I'm always one to accept good ideas when I hear them and this seems really clever to me. I'm just ashamed I didn't think of it myself. The small heaters draw probably the same amps as the heat pumps. There is elegance in simplicity, sometimes.

JD

[edgray]

JD: Congrats on the new-to-you Newmar. IMO, You will not regret going to Coachlight as Marty and his dealership are among Newmars best.

Regarding the A/C units, our KSCA had the low profile Penguin units with heat pumps. They do save on propane by using the CG elec to make heat, but they really only work down to about 38*. The elec space heater are a better choice in my opinion because you put them where the heat is needed, and two 1500 watt units can be run just fine if you have 50 amp service. You may also want to ask about A/C units that have elec heat strips, not pumps, in them as I would think they will work to heat the entire coach wheras the space heaters are somewhat "localized".

In cold weather you can't beat the propane fired furnace, and IT will keep the compartments warm to, which the other methods will not. A 100 watt light bulb on an extension cord is all you need in the water bay. Ed

[allynne]

JD,

I have had both heat strips and heat pumps, my preference is for heat pumps, not sure about the cost differential but worth for me.
Heat pumps put out heat you can feel, heat strips are like using your toaster. Heat pumps are for more efficent. As ambient temps drop to about 34 or 35 degrees heat pumps are not going to put out much heat. The heat strips will still put out the same small amount of heat as at 60 degrees. In either case you will need supplement heat, furnace or electrical heaters.
I believe the furnace will provide heat to the water compartment during cold weather, beyond that a 100 watt bulb will be sufficient for protection to about zero.

What enviroment do you plan on operating in, S. FL or more northly climes?

Best to cover the worst case.

Al Sawyer
'05 MADP

[Norm4015]

I think your service writer needs a better education on Air Conditioners vs AC/Heat Pumps vs Heat Strips. AC/Heat Pumps are the ONLY way to go.

[chofujohn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by allynne JD, I have had both heat strips and heat pumps, my preference is for heat pumps, not sure about the cost differential but worth for me. Heat pumps put out heat you can feel, heat strips are like using your toaster. Heat pumps are for more efficent. As ambient temps drop to about 34 or 35 degrees heat pumps are not going to put out much heat. The heat strips will still put out the same small amount of heat as at 60 degrees. In either case you will need supplement heat, furnace or electrical heaters. I believe the furnace will provide heat to the water compartment during cold weather, beyond that a 100 watt bulb will be sufficient for protection to about zero. What enviroment do you plan on operating in, S. FL or more northly climes? Best to cover the worst case. Al Sawyer '05 MADP

Hi Al,

I'm seriously leaning towards Penguin HP's for front and rear and unless I'm going skiing I'll not be seeing very cold weather, at least not on purpose. I figure when day time temps drop to 50 then that's my cue to leave. I'm thinking heat pumps were made for my kind of weather. My only hesitation is due to reading negative reports/reviews on this forum. But, then I realize that most people don't post on these kinds of forums unless they've got a complaint of some kind. I'm assuming that all those who don't complain here are satisfied with their heat pumps. It's a hard pill to swallow to think that they are essentially disposable units like old VCR's, but I can't really complain given we're all playing the same game by the same rules. Maybe I'll be one of the lucky ones.

With some luck I'll be launching on my FT career by the end of the month. I'll be heading north in the summer and south in the winter. My first major stop of any length is going to be Glacier NP. I'd like to spend about a month there, but by mid September I've got a 4 day party to attend over in Pacifica, CA. I'll likely head north from there up the coast highway. I'm going to experience most all of the National Parks at some time or another, at least those west of the Rockies, but nothing says I've got to visit them all this year or even next year. I'm more into taking it as it comes. As winter descends I'm going to the desert southwest when temps are tolerable; Zion, Arches, Bryce Canyon, Death Valley, Grand Canyon, Joshua Tree, etc. I don't like oppressive heat. I was thinking of heading down the Baha Peninsula, but traveling alone I'm told it's not such a good idea. At some point I'll be heading east and eventually to Florida to fish and play golf. Being a military brat I've got friends all over the country, so visiting them will be a priority, especially down in Florida.

I'm all about fishing and will be taking my fishing kayak on top of my toad. Fly fishing is my passion and so I'm going to hit all those famous trout streams and rivers I've only read about. On the list are the Snake, Henry's Fork, the Madison and the Yellowstone. Once I'm up in that part of the world I'll figure out the rest. I'm also an avid inshore salt water fisher and love surf fishing. All I can say is thank goodness for Newmar's full basement as I believe I'll be needing every bit of it for sporting gear including my scuba gear, guns, rods/reels, beach cart, etc. When I get my DSDP back from Coachlight I'll get into serious provisioning from the house, setup my mail forwarding, new cell phone plan, new Dish Network account, autopay Mastercard, etc. I expect my new Dish 1000 satellite dish to get a constant workout. Can't go without HD TV, right?

The house isn't mine, technically, so I can simply walk away without ANY repurcussions and that's exactly what I'm going to do. I told my ex-wife she could have all the contents I'll be leaving behind, so she's happy. And I'm having some fun giving friends my cooler stuff; fossils, large minerals, big screen tv's and such. I'm not going to rent a storage unit and figure all my "stuff" can be replaced if I ever settle down again. I must say, though, the idea of being on permanent vacation is very appealing.

JD

[Route 66]

Ditto.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm4015 I think your service writer needs a better education on Air Conditioners vs AC/Heat Pumps vs Heat Strips. AC/Heat Pumps are the ONLY way to go.

[NLOVNIT]

If ya don't mind a SOB owner butting in here, I too recommend to go with the A/C heat pumps. Just like allynne, we've had RV's with both A/C heat pumps & heat strips. From what I found, A/C heat pumps also remove interior moisture whereas the heat strips do not. An important factor when one is closed up & stuck inside due to cold/rainy weather outside. When we had the heat strips, even with ventillation & running exhaust fans, showers/cooking, even breathing, would cause condensation on the interior windows if we were stuck inside due to inclement weather. Doesn't happen with the A/C heat pumps.

Lori-

[chofujohn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLOVNIT If ya don't mind a SOB owner butting in here, I too recommend to go with the A/C heat pumps. Just like allynne, we've had RV's with both A/C heat pumps & heat strips. From what I found, A/C heat pumps also remove interior moisture whereas the heat strips do not. An important factor when one is closed up & stuck inside due to cold/rainy weather outside. When we had the heat strips, even with ventillation & running exhaust fans, showers/cooking, even breathing, would cause condensation on the interior windows if we were stuck inside due to inclement weather. Doesn't happen with the A/C heat pumps. Lori-

I never considered condensation as a factor in this decision, but it makes sense. The decision is made, then. I'm going with heat pumps. Now, I don't mean to go to the well too often, but would you go with Brisk Air or Penguin HP's. The Brisk Air units have a vertical compressor and the Penguins have horizontally installed compressors. I don't have an opinion about the importance of roof clearance, but mabe you do. The Penguins are much more expensive.

I have read complaints about noise on Penguins. I've not heard anything about the Brisk Airs in terms of noise. Also, there is a "commercial" duty unit that appears to be the same dimensions as the Brisk Airs. I don't know anything about them, except that they exist and are intended for heavier use. I can't find a spec on Dometic decibel ratings, but as a precaution I'm going to have Coachlight figure out a way to better insulate the units to try to dampen noise.

JD

[Route 66]

I had Penguin's and I'd have them again. They work fine and look a lot better.

["007"]

John here are some pictures of how the AC's are connected to your interior ceiling venting system.
When they lift the AC's make sure they remove foam strips carefully or you will need new ones from Newmar.

[chofujohn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 007";900131]John [B][URL="http://gallery.me.com/hughes54311#100099/NewmarAC_Install_5&bgcolor=black here are some pictures[/URL][/B] of how the AC's are connected to your interior ceiling venting system. When they lift the AC's make sure they remove foam strips carefully or you will need new ones from Newmar.

Since I'm getting the new roof and having new a/c's installed I am tempted to buy new "everything" up top. After finding out my auto vent with rain sensor is over $400 I've ammended my thinking somewhat, but the intention is there. What's on the roof now is 9 years old.

I thought I'd be saving money by buying an older Newmar and I did, but in the end it won't have been all that much unless newer Newmars need just as much work done to them. If that's the case then I'm way ahead of the game. Not to mention it is great to "know" what I've got is new. Otherwise, I'd be waiting for the other shoe to drop. Who ever it was who originally told me to budget $10k extra for after purchase repairs and upgrades was right on. I'm going to have an easy $15k outlay in this motorhome before I'm done less the insurance company's participation on the roof. I had hoped I could dodge this bullet by buying one with only 32,000 miles, but that doesn't seem to be as much of a positive factor as I had hoped. It's the AGE that matters and whether it was stored inside or outside. This one has been in the Florida sun its whole life.

If I had it to do all over again I'd buy one that was stored inside and with a fiberglass roof and 3 slides instead of 2. Who was it who told me this won't be the last motorhome I buy? He was probably right on that count, too. My goal is to refurbish this motorhome to a high level, so that when I launch I'll be care free for at least a few weeks. I know things are going to break, but the upgrades and refurbishments I'm buying today will hopefully be some kind of insurance against a problematic future on the road. That's my hope, anyway.

Turns out you senior members here have been pretty right on in your best estimations of what it takes to become a full-timer. There really isn't any substitute for experience.

JD

[chofujohn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 007";900131]John [B][URL="http://gallery.me.com/hughes54311#100099/NewmarAC_Install_5&bgcolor=black here are some pictures[/URL][/B] of how the AC's are connected to your interior ceiling venting system. When they lift the AC's make sure they remove foam strips carefully or you will need new ones from Newmar.

all I can say is you've got one BEAUTIFUL Moutain Aire!!! You've got the cherry interior I wanted and didn't get. You've also got hardwood flooring that is almost too beautiful for words. I wonder if you bought your MH from that dealer in Houston that puts hardwoods in all his units? I've got the white wood interior that doesn't resell well at all. That's one of the reasons I was able to buy this DSDP at the price I did. I have no complaints, though. I'm actually thinking about laying some light maple hardwoods, which I think might help a bit. Hardwoods are so much classier look than my 9 year old carpet and tile.

I will tell the techs to be careful with the foam strips. Thanks for the suggestion. I would have hoped the new a/c units would come with new foam.

007, is there anything else you'd like to contribute to this process? The new roof will go a long way to making me happy, but should I be looking at other stuff while the roof is off the coach that would make me even happier? The wiring? New insulation? I'm going to have them install a remotely operated spot light up front for those late, after dark arrivals when additional light would be a benefit. My new Dish 1000 HD dish will be installed and there is already a solar panel up top and it will be reinstalled on the new roof as well. Should I be looking at maybe a new sunroof over the shower. It looks hazed by the elements, but shows no sign of leaking. Please feel free to help me spend money since I'll only have this opportunity once. It isn't everyday that a motorhome is roofless and open to the world. What would be on your wish list if you were me?

JD

[Mr_D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chofujohn The house isn't mine, technically, so I can simply walk away without ANY repurcussions and that's exactly what I'm going to do. I told my ex-wife she could have all the contents I'll be leaving behind, so she's happy. And I'm having some fun giving friends my cooler stuff; fossils, large minerals, big screen tv's and such. I'm not going to rent a storage unit and figure all my "stuff" can be replaced if I ever settle down again. I must say, though, the idea of being on permanent vacation is very appealing. JD

I may just do that with my wife if she doesn't straighten up! Here daughter died almost three years ago and she's still in a depression. We "inherited" two grandkids and three cats. Wife won't do much of anything around the house except sleep and care for a few plants. She does make good money and has quite a large IRA and a few smaller ones so I'll lose a lot that way.

Anyway, I've had heat pumps (they are not air conditioners with heat pumps) for close to 45 years now and I can say I like them for our climate here in WA. But you do have to have aux heat when it gets cold. Also, the air coming out of the registers is cooler than skin temp so you don't feel the warmth like a furnace will give you. Some people don't like that feeling, I'm used to it.

Having had heat strips in some of my TT's I can say the heat strips are not made for much except to take the chill off on a cold morning. The air flow is too high for it to warm up the air much, they aren't even close to what a 1,500 watt heater will do.

We have two 13.5 Penguin units that do the job for us in our DSDP but we do have dual pane windows and the optional (in '02 at least) roof insulation. We have to stop and listen to even know if it's raining out. In Yuma in 95° heat we only needed one heat pump running so I guess it helps.