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Old 03-20-2017, 05:55 PM   #1
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Inverter Questions???

We found a Georgetown Series 5 we really like but we wondered if there were other MH's in that price range that we might like. There are. The Baystar 3113 is about the same MSRP and we really like the floor plan. But as I was researching I read about the inverter.

Am I reading right? You can't get any larger than a 1000w inverter and that one is only for the TV's and a couple of outlets...maybe? We're not interested in a residential fridge so that doesn't count. That seems crazy. We plan to boondock a lot and not having a large inverter than powers the 110v throughout the coach is a major issue for us.

We're fully aware of the limitations of the batteries and what we can and can't run on 110 volt through the inverter but not being able to recharge iPads or laptops in the bedroom, charge a shaver in the bathroom or use any manner of low draw 110v items without running the generator seems a bit short sighted.

True? Has anyone added a larger inverter or rewired so it powers all the 110v outlets? if not, I'm not sure Newmar is a contender for us.
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:01 PM   #2
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We have a Canyon Star which came with a 600 watt inverter. We removed it and replaced it with a 3000 watt. The panel is now wired for 1 a/c and all other 110v circuits to go through the inverter.
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:01 PM   #3
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yes, many smaller ClassA gas units have smaller inverters, with only two batteries, useful with only a few outlets, or tvs, etc... or a residential fridge in many cases. Unless you get into the diesel pushers, you'll probably find few ClassA units with more than dual 6v batteries and a 1k watt inverter...

but, if you order a Newmar, they may very well provide you whatever wiring scheme, inverter size, and battery bank that you wish...

I agree with you, though, if a unit has an inverter, no matter what size, it seems a little small to only provide that feed through a chosen few outlets.
I get that the smaller inverter and batteries are not designed for 'everything' to be run simultaneously, but let the owner decide what outlets to use, and manage their own amperage, rather than the factory choosing only a select few 'special' outlets...
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:13 PM   #4
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Inverter Questions???

I replaced the 2 6 volt 220ah flooded batteries with 3 12 volt 300ah lithium. Many things in my MH were not realistic for my usage and needed to be replaced or upgraded. Makes you wonder if the designers at Newmar actually use their products.
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:19 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Dan McMartin View Post

We're fully aware of the limitations of the batteries and what we can and can't run on 110 volt through the inverter but not being able to recharge iPads or laptops in the bedroom, charge a shaver in the bathroom or use any manner of low draw 110v items without running the generator seems a bit short sighted.

.
A 1000 watt inverter will eveything on your list, along with your TV. Check the watts of each item and add them up.

I installed a 1000 watt inverter and we charge 2 phones, 2 laptops and watch Satellite TV, with powered speakers.

We make coffee in the AM with a 4 cup Mr. Coffee (700 watts ) and run the crock pot while on the road.

It can run the gas/electric fridge at 350 watts but that takes the batteries down pretty quick, unless we are traveling.

I did a bit of rewiring to get the outlets I wanted powered but it can be done.
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:34 PM   #6
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twinboat is right. The only appliances you will not be able to power is the microwave and the AC. You may not be able to run everything all at once either. One option is to not order any inverter and just buy and install your own. That way you can use an inverter / battery combo that works for you and wire it into whatever outlets you prefer and probably get it done for about the same money the mfgr. would charge as an add-on.
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:38 PM   #7
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But, if you order a Newmar, they may very well provide you whatever wiring scheme, inverter size, and battery bank that you wish...

I agree with you, though, if a unit has an inverter, no matter what size, it seems a little small to only provide that feed through a chosen few outlets.
I get that the smaller inverter and batteries are not designed for 'everything' to be run simultaneously, but let the owner decide what outlets to use, and manage their own amperage, rather than the factory choosing only a select few 'special' outlets...
That's the rub. I've seen discussion of folks wanting to order bigger inverters and/or running the inverter power to all the outlets but no confirmation that it's ever been done. If so, that would work assuming it doesn't add too much to the cost of the coach.

And as far as powering all the outlets, I agree. Could I make do with one or two? Sure, but why would I want to? I don't want to have to get up every morning to retrieve our iPads from the living room area. I don't want to have to move my laptop to charge them or run on the laptop battery because the outlet where I choose to work isn't hot.

And maybe I'm showing my ignorance but do most class A's only run inverter power to a few select outlets in one small area of the coach. I can see a few choice outlets here and there like the kitchen, bath, bedroom and living area but just near the TV? I'm not sure that's normal among class A's.
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:50 PM   #8
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We just purchased a Canyon Star with two inverters (factory installed), each one is 1000 watt. I know one is for the fridge (10 cubic foot residential) and the other is for the TVs (4). I'm not sure how many outlets may be powered by one or both inverters. I'll check it out in the near future.


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Old 03-27-2017, 09:24 PM   #9
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Our Canyon Star came with a 2000 watt inverter which powers most of the 110 outlets (never checked them all, but since we use the microwave and tv at the rest stops I assume all the 110 run from this. I also read somewhere that if you are running on 30AMP service the EMS can use the inverter power for a little boost. Our unit has a residential fridge that seems to work fine over night or during a long day at the tailgate. Keep in mind that a 2000W inverter supplies 15+ amps at 120 (there is a little loss converting 12V to 120V) which is basically a single breaker circuit at your house. I would be extremely surprised that all the items you mention even pull 2 amps combined, compared to a microwave or refrigerator charging those items with a 600W inverter would work fine, probably could even run the crock pot and make coffee......
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Old 03-28-2017, 01:21 AM   #10
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There are many ways to wire Inverters into a coach.

If you had no Inverter before...I see makeshift applications where people simply plug their shore power cord into the Inverter. It will attempt to run everything that was previously powered when connected to shore power.

If you want it to work harmoniously...then replacing the Power distribution panel with one like Precision Circuits makes...paired with a Magnum Inverter/Converter. The Precision Circuits unit has a bus for high draw components like A/C units, Water Heater Elements, Induction cooktops...powered thru a 50 amp main. It then feeds power thru this bus to the Inverter...which powers the battery charger that's built in...and passes thru ac power to a separate Inverter bus. The separate Inverter bus has it's own breaker protection...and a few breaker positions for stuff like the microwave, residential fridge, and ac powered outlets. The Inverter is connected to your battery bank with very large cables...and fuse protected. It would be a pretty big job to undertake to retrofit a coach with one of these setups...but I admit...they work great. With careful component selection...they network to have added functionality like load shedding when connected to 30amp or less shore power, soft start for the gen set, load assist...where battery power can be converted to AC power to help assist when high draw items start up,... auto generator start with optional accessories...

The newest hybrid inverters can be set up to run air conditioners. I'm not familiar with their wiring,,,but as I understand it..they can be installed to combine different inputs...solar, shore power, generator, etc... Latest and greatest, I guess. Again...retrofitting something like that would be a major undertaking.

As far as class a outlets go...it depends on the size Inverter. Small inverters just power an isolated area. Maybe a tv, entertainment center, and a residential fridge. One or two outlets. Larger Inverters power more. Our coachs Inverter powers the residential fridge, the microwave, and every single outlet in the coach...save the one for the washer and dryer...and the one the induction cooktop plugs into. They work on battery power via Inverter when not connected to shore power or generator power...and they are powered by shore power or generator power when available by a pass thru feature, which is automatic.

When I first got the coach...I hooked it up to 50 amp shore power but forgot to throw the breaker to the ON position. It was cold outside..,so we weren't using air conditioning. It took hours for it to dawn on me that we only had Inverter power...and no shore power. The only things that would clue us in would be high draw items not working like a/c, electric hot water elements, induction cooktop, or washer dryer... That is, until we run the batteries down to low voltage cutout.

I was amazed...as we sat there with lights on, tv going...grabbing a cold one from the fridge.
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Old 03-28-2017, 09:32 AM   #11
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We have a new 2017 BS 3113 with the 2 1000w inverters. One dedicated for the fridge and the other for the outlets in the entertainment center cabinets front and bedroom with a couple of other select outlets (kitchen area as I recall).

There are plenty of unused outlets in the entertainment center cabinets (front and bedroom) one could use. I hear what you are saying though... BTW, the only other outlets in the bedroom on the 3113 than those in the entertainment center (which are on the inverter) and those on that same wall (outside of the cabinets, which are not on the inverter), are the 2 under the king bed platform 1 on each side (which unfortunately, also are not on the inverter). There are no outlets at all in the overhead cabinets above the bed (front or headboard end) on the slide side.

I am going to investigate re-wiring the bed pedestal outlets to the inverter, as that would be handy for me. Like has been stated, if you order, you can have them wire it as you want, otherwise options are DIY, or you could really make do if you wanted.

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Old 03-28-2017, 09:55 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCrowell View Post
We have a Canyon Star which came with a 600 watt inverter. We removed it and replaced it with a 3000 watt. The panel is now wired for 1 a/c and all other 110v circuits to go through the inverter.
I know this may sound snarky but...You have an air conditioner going through the inverter?

That seems odd and perhaps a problem in ways you may not have seen yet.

1. Running an AC unit will (not counting start up peak) will draw at least 10 amps so at 120V that means that as a bare minimum will draw 1200 watts but I suspect normally closer to 1500 watts. Your max inverter pass-thru for nearly every inverter in your class of coach I have seen is 3600 watts (30 amps @ 120V). Depending on other inverted loads like a microwave, charger and other stuff you could bump that limit. If so, you will get a hard shut down and need to go to the inverter to hit the reset button.

2. If your inverter kicks in and doesn't exceed limits I can't imagine how short of a run time you would have before your batteries are depleted. Of course, if you have a rather massively upgraded battery set up and/or a large solar capability that is getting well fed by the sun you could forestall that situation to some extent.

3. Maybe I am missing something?
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Old 03-28-2017, 10:18 AM   #13
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Wait for the King Aire crowd to chime in. I think I read they have the option for up to 16 AGMs..and dual inverters... And yes, they can run an A/C unit with that setup.


Okay, color me jealous
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Old 03-28-2017, 11:26 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by sedaliaterry View Post
We have a new 2017 BS 3113 with the 2 1000w inverters. One dedicated for the fridge and the other for the outlets in the entertainment center cabinets front and bedroom with a couple of other select outlets (kitchen area as I recall).

There are plenty of unused outlets in the entertainment center cabinets (front and bedroom) one could use. I hear what you are saying though... BTW, the only other outlets in the bedroom on the 3113 than those in the entertainment center (which are on the inverter) and those on that same wall (outside of the cabinets, which are not on the inverter), are the 2 under the king bed platform 1 on each side (which unfortunately, also are not on the inverter). There are no outlets at all in the overhead cabinets above the bed (front or headboard end) on the slide side.

I am going to investigate re-wiring the bed pedestal outlets to the inverter, as that would be handy for me. Like has been stated, if you order, you can have them wire it as you want, otherwise options are DIY, or you could really make do if you wanted.

Terry
As we're coming to understand, the Newmar setup isn't unusual. The outlets near the bed, possibly one in the bath and the kitchen seem like no brainers. Honestly, all the outlets should be wired. I can manage my own power use but I suspect that's the problem. Most people don't manage their power and assume that if the outlets are powered, you can use them indiscriminately. Customers run their batteries dry and complain.

We will probably order. We have time and there are some popular options we don't like (outside TV, over cab bunk, etc.) that seem to be on most dealer coaches. We can get the outlets wired like we want and maybe get a 2000w inverter...or maybe I'll do a little research and decide I'd rather DIY a custom set up.

By the way, how do you like the 3113?
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