Community Forums

saydiver · 07-02-2008, 02:19 AM

It looks like we might be here more time than originally planned for the factory PDI so Newmar can solve a few problems.

Service is doing a great job trying to find solutions to the issues. Our major issues are from a lack of communication in production and is also something that a dealer would not have been able to handle, so we're glad we chose to do a factory PDI.

We have a couple of minor issues, but the major problems are only one coax cable was run for our two DVRs from the satellite, instead of four and the desk drawers should of had flop down fronts on them so they will have to be remade totally so someone from the production cabinet shop will be called in.
As far as to the wiring they haven't figured out a solution yet and we'll be here until they do.
They had detailed, specific instructions from Joe about all the wiring needed, but failed to follow them.

We had originally designed the entertainment cabinet to hold all the electronic equipment, but engineering nixed the plan because of running too many cables, so the alternate plan was to put all the equipment about the refrig.
Our plan was to have two DVRs and be able to watch either TV using either DVR. We had this feature in our house in Northern Virginia and I really liked it.

Anyway, evidently the alternate engineering plan wasn't relayed to production, so when we got here all the equipment was in the entertainment cabinet, but only one coax cable was run instead of four. Some cables were run above the refrig, but not everything that's needed. FlyingDiver will post later with a much better explanation of the technical details and issues.

Sue

saydiver · 07-02-2008, 02:19 AM

It looks like we might be here more time than originally planned for the factory PDI so Newmar can solve a few problems.

Service is doing a great job trying to find solutions to the issues. Our major issues are from a lack of communication in production and is also something that a dealer would not have been able to handle, so we're glad we chose to do a factory PDI.

We have a couple of minor issues, but the major problems are only one coax cable was run for our two DVRs from the satellite, instead of four and the desk drawers should of had flop down fronts on them so they will have to be remade totally so someone from the production cabinet shop will be called in.
As far as to the wiring they haven't figured out a solution yet and we'll be here until they do.
They had detailed, specific instructions from Joe about all the wiring needed, but failed to follow them.

We had originally designed the entertainment cabinet to hold all the electronic equipment, but engineering nixed the plan because of running too many cables, so the alternate plan was to put all the equipment about the refrig.
Our plan was to have two DVRs and be able to watch either TV using either DVR. We had this feature in our house in Northern Virginia and I really liked it.

Anyway, evidently the alternate engineering plan wasn't relayed to production, so when we got here all the equipment was in the entertainment cabinet, but only one coax cable was run instead of four. Some cables were run above the refrig, but not everything that's needed. FlyingDiver will post later with a much better explanation of the technical details and issues.

Sue

rebelsbeach · 07-02-2008, 03:53 AM

Hope they get it all worked out to your liking Sue....

Let us hear from you.

Latitude · 07-02-2008, 04:17 PM

Hi Sue

That is not 'Good'

Hopefully they get it fixed up and you will be on your journey!!!

We will be in on Sun

Rick

rebelsbeach · 07-02-2008, 05:56 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Our major issues are from a lack of communication in production.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I went back and read this post again, there is no excuse for this.

We're talking about an investment by the customer of some five hundred thousand dollars or more and the folks that build them are communicating with each other, in an area as small as the production area of Newmar?

Good grief, as much as that PA system blares, you'd think they were waking the dead!

On a King Aire no less....

CSX4350 · 07-03-2008, 08:45 AM

Unfortunately, and I really hate to say this, but this is an effect of having your workers more worried about how long it takes to build a coach instead of being worried about quality control. I would think that taking a bit longer to build a coach and making quality the highest priority would not only pay off in customer satisfaction, but monetarily in saved warranty work. Sue's work will cost Newmar thousands in parts & labor, all because someone failed to read the order properly.
If you're still there next weekend I'll be pulling in on Saturday the 12th. Hopefully there is a full hookup spot left, and I REALLY hope that I have enough driving skill that I can actually park in it! It kills me to see the Amish guys around there that don't even drive, but they can wheel a 45' coach into a spot I would never dare try.

rebelsbeach · 07-03-2008, 09:05 AM

GREAT points John....

RV manufacturers are so worried about "we did 12 today" or we're doing "this many a week", when they should be worried about "we didn't screw up anything on that one" or "we've not screwed up in a long time".
Hilariously, when I did the PDI on the Essex I was amazed at the things the guys were fixing...
How'd that stuff get through the sacred "final inspection" which is done on every rig?

We know how.... someone says "somebody ELSE will fix it" we're too busy doing x units a day to worry".

Hmmm.... ya think they'll have some time to think about that now?

bcbounders · 07-03-2008, 10:36 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by saydiver:
...As far as to the wiring they haven't figured out a solution yet and we'll be here until they do... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sue,

I'm no expert, and I'm sure the Newmar team will be able to figure something out, but one thing to consider is if there's any way to use Diplexers to combine the satellite feeds on the roof into a single cable, and then to split them back out in the cabinet using a Multiswitch. Diplexers are like splitters, but work in reverse and combine signals from two cables into one. Multiswitches are like splitters, but are specifically designed to work with satellite signals (there's something special in the requirements that I don't completely understand, but it's important).

If you Google "satellite diplexer" and "satellite multiswitch" you can read more and find online sources to buy them. Not sure this will completely solve the problem, but it's a starting point.

Best of luck! The King Aire is a gorgeous coach... hope you have many happy years with it.

Jestme13 · 07-03-2008, 01:57 PM

If I laid out all that scratch for a super hi line coach, I would not stand for any Micky Mouse repairs. I'd be patient and make sure it was done the way it should have been the first time. Or, have them give you your money back since they did not deliver as contracted.

**NLOVNIT** · 07-03-2008, 02:47 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rebelsbeach:
RV manufacturers are so worried about "we did 12 today" or we're doing "this many a week", when they should be worried about "we didn't screw up anything on that one" or "we've not screwed up in a long time". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And it's not limited to just the rv industry either. I worked for huge company that was more concerned with quantity than quality. Then management acted suprised, moaned & pointed fingers when backcharges arose from errors that should've been caught at the numerous quality "check points" supposedly mandated as quality control.

It's a wonder everything we buy doesn't fall apart....oh yeah, it does...sooner or later.

L-

rebelsbeach · 07-03-2008, 03:56 PM

OMG.... drum roll please!

I agree with Steve!!

I would sit down with Ken Williamson or whomever is following the build sheet, show them the specs as signed off on and then REFUSE to accept the coach as it is materially NOT what I ordered.

Remember.... the one with the money makes the decision, so DO NOT give them anymore money.

You asked for so many cables to be in a strategic location, they SCREWED IT UP..... Houston, we have a problem and it isn't rocket science.

I would NOT stand for diplexers or switches, I'd want it done right..... God help you down the road when you go to have something fixed, as then you won't be able to tell the players with a scorecard.

CSX4350 · 07-03-2008, 05:44 PM

I figure they'll be able to make it right, they may have to put you in a hotel for a couple of days while they tear the whole ceiling out to run the cables but they'll do it.
As far as diplexers, I don't think that will work. However, if they could do it I also wouldn't accept it.
They will do whatever is necessary not to lose a sale and possibly a customer, especially these days.

FlyingDiver · 07-04-2008, 03:13 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bcbounders:

Sue,

I'm no expert, and I'm sure the Newmar team will be able to figure something out, but one thing to consider is if there's any way to use Diplexers to combine the satellite feeds on the roof into a single cable, and then to split them back out in the cabinet using a Multiswitch. Diplexers are like splitters, but work in reverse and combine signals from two cables into one. Multiswitches are like splitters, but are specifically designed to work with satellite signals (there's something special in the requirements that I don't completely understand, but it's important).

If you Google "satellite diplexer" and "satellite multiswitch" you can read more and find online sources to buy them. Not sure this will completely solve the problem, but it's a starting point.

Best of luck! The King Aire is a gorgeous coach... hope you have many happy years with it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, the diplexers wouldn't have worked. Diplexers are good for combining sat and OTA signals on the same cable, but not multiple sat signals (from the different LNBs and polarities).

In any case, the service techs finished pulling the three additional cables from the roof mount to the slide yesterday morning. Both the receivers I have installed are seeing all 5 sat locations fine at this time. So that repair is done, even though we're concerned about the long-term viability of the RG-6 flexing as the slide moves in and out. That's the reason that engineering originally didn't want to put the receivers where they ended up.

Only major item left is the rebuilt keyboard drawers for the desk unit. A couple of minor ones, like a bad e-plex keypad (it has a shade control button on the back part that isn't on the template).

joe

rebelsbeach · 07-04-2008, 04:20 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In any case, the service techs finished pulling the three additional cables from the roof mount to the slide yesterday morning. Both the receivers I have installed are seeing all 5 sat locations fine at this time. So that repair is done, even though we're concerned about the long-term viability of the RG-6 flexing as the slide moves in and out. That's the reason that engineering originally didn't want to put the receivers where they ended up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Joe, while they've figured out how to have kitchens in slides and so forth, I'd be very cognizant of just how they've arranged the coax in the slide in order to assure it doesn't get in a bind over time.
Goodness knows you don't want to be as good at knowing the route to Nappanee as I became over time.