Community Forums

brucedelta · 03-20-2008, 06:29 PM

For the 09 MADP you can select either the kingdome ($2828) or the R6 ($3954). I would like some data on these units. I used to know all about DirectTV and such for my home, but have not looked at these things in several years.
I use a h10 - 250 Tivo at home which is obsolete as it does not support MPEG 4. On the other hand it gets a great picture via the over the air HD signal.

So as far as I can tell both of these units require a add on for the 110 (MPEG 4) satellite. I have been told the the KVH requires the r20 receiver which is no longer made, is this still true or will the r21 work.

The KVH claims to use GPS for tracking and fast acquisition. The Kingdome says it has DVB, but I have yet to figure out what that is.

I saw the KVH in operation on a trip to a Jets game in the Jetsmobile. It was very impressive how it kept on track when we went under an overpass.
I have been told by two kingdome owners that they do the same thing, but I have not seen it.

Does the old r20 still have to be used with the KVH?

Thoughts on this issue appreciated.

brucedelta · 03-20-2008, 06:29 PM

For the 09 MADP you can select either the kingdome ($2828) or the R6 ($3954). I would like some data on these units. I used to know all about DirectTV and such for my home, but have not looked at these things in several years.
I use a h10 - 250 Tivo at home which is obsolete as it does not support MPEG 4. On the other hand it gets a great picture via the over the air HD signal.

So as far as I can tell both of these units require a add on for the 110 (MPEG 4) satellite. I have been told the the KVH requires the r20 receiver which is no longer made, is this still true or will the r21 work.

The KVH claims to use GPS for tracking and fast acquisition. The Kingdome says it has DVB, but I have yet to figure out what that is.

I saw the KVH in operation on a trip to a Jets game in the Jetsmobile. It was very impressive how it kept on track when we went under an overpass.
I have been told by two kingdome owners that they do the same thing, but I have not seen it.

Does the old r20 still have to be used with the KVH?

Thoughts on this issue appreciated.

Aridon · 03-20-2008, 07:54 PM

If you want HD then stay away from the domes all together. They are not able to receive any of the new HD that DirecTV has up on the 103 or 99 birds which is all of their HD with the exception of 14 or so channels still on 110, 119 or 101.

Also note that in the future, no one knows exactly when, the HD programming will be moving to 103. Sunday ticket HD which has been on 101 is already moving this coming season.

If you want Hd the only truly future proof system is a 5 LNB motosat or winguard dish. If you don't care about HD then by all means pick up the dome. None of the domes are capable of receiving signals from the new satellites as they are transmitted via different frequencies.

NEILSJEWEL · 03-21-2008, 04:48 AM

I have been told as of next Feb the 4 or 5 station that are required now to send out air signal to or roof antenna Fox abc etc will be discontinued.I am the one that had 46 channel between tampa and orlando The man from comcast said all thes signal will be phased out over a 6 month period//////

CSX4350 · 03-21-2008, 05:09 PM

IMHO the KVH is probably the best of the domes, but as others have said no dome can receive the two new MPEG4 satellites, the 99 and 103 birds. My R5 was FAST, acquiring the satellites in about 30 seconds.
That being said I wanted HD more than in-motion. I looked hard at Motosat, but their poor dealer/service network caused me to go with the Winegard. So far I've had it for 3 weeks, been on the road for most of that, and it has worked flawlessly. It takes about 5 minutes to get signal, and you MUST remember to put it down before driving off, but it is everything it is advertised to be.

brucedelta · 03-22-2008, 04:00 AM

So if I get one of these big dish's can I use it for Data also?
Is there going to be a mod or advance for the domes that allow them to get the new satellite's?
I like winegard as I have experienced excellent customer service from them on my home antenna after a DirectTV screw up.

I wanted to cross post this to technology forum, but could not find a way to do it. Can only an admin cross post?

Bill Adams · 03-22-2008, 05:35 AM

The dome manufacturers are going to have to come up with a solution to the KA/KU problem created by DTV and likely to extend to Dish Network with time. As of today there is no such solution and it is rumored that KVH may have a working unit by early 2009. I suspect it will only pick up 99, 101 and 103 and not all of the DTV is current on these satellites. It may be 1-2 years before that part gets squared away.
For the next few years the only full HD solution is the open dish. That's not a problem for most people since you only "must" have a dome if you want to be able to watch TV while under way. With the advent of the DVR receivers you can still watch TV while driving(without the interruption of the trees and overpasses) even without a dome. Just record some additional programs and watch them when you choose.

Jetsmania · 03-22-2008, 05:59 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">it has worked flawlessly </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi John! If you get a chance I have quite a few questions about your new unit. Can you PM a phone number where I could call you at? I know we spoke in the past but I misplaced the number. What do you think about having both units on the coach. In motion for underway and switch over to the big guns for sitting still?? I would downgrade to a R4 or R5 (from the R6) and also install the Wineguard?? Paul

JamieB · 03-22-2008, 06:18 AM

Brucedelta.

Neither of the television dishes from MotoSAT or Winegard that will pick up all 5 DirecTV dishes will work for data. It takes a larger dish, which MotoSAT does provide for data transfer. In fact, MotoSAT pretty much has a dish for every need, whether the average user or the business needing tons of bandwidth.

As far as the television goes, if you want DirecTV and you want HD, you must get either the MotoSAT HD-SL5 or the Winegard. The Winegard definitely has the price advantage at about $400 cheaper. The MotoSAT has several advantages that I believe make it a better value than the Winegard.

I would like to mention something that John mentioned above. He said part of the reason that he chose the Winegard was the poor Dealer/Service network that MotoSAT has. It is true that MotoSAT has far fewer dealers than Winegard. I do feel though that the MotoSAT dealers have much more experience with television systems than Winegard dealers typically do. As you drive around the country, it seams that every RV dealer is either a Winegard or Kingdome dealer. They also sell thousands of other products. MotoSAT dealers typically work with television and communications equipment only. If past performance is any indicator, the Winegard will require more service than the MotoSAT will. Some Winegard dealers are very experienced and very good, so I would make sure I found one of those dealers, and not just go to any Winegard dealer you come across.

footdoc · 03-22-2008, 06:28 AM

As I have posted before....If you choose HD over in motion, as I did, I use the DTV 5 LNB slimline dish as a portable one..I like to park under trees and with 100 ft of leash, I can find the sky at almost all sites and have the best of both worlds. And the technology isnt at DTV's whim, as they would need to replace ALL HD dishes if they start screwing around with what goes where..I dont think they will do that for a long time...vs a dome that currently will work with the present configuration but might not next month....As long as you can watch a tv signal meter screen, aiming the slimline is no biggie at all...about 5 minutes

brucedelta · 03-22-2008, 07:20 AM

Well thanks for all the advice. The picture is coming into focus and it is ugly as far as I can tell, How many dish's can fit on the roof of a MADP?

I would define my ideal requirements to include the following:
Data Access is a must - I know an aircard and wifi are getting better, but I need to make sure I can get data anywhere. I will probably use both a aircard and dish. In actuality I use a PocketPC smartphone to get email and it also acts as a aircard through tethering. But I know it does not work everywhere, so a dish is a must. A tripod mount dish would probably be suitable, but I worry about storage and such so I think roof mount is required.

In Motion - Probably not required, but desirable. I really would like in motion. If I really need a separate unit for HD then a downgrade to a lower end in motion may be in order.

HD - required but may be able to deal with a portable dish. How big are they and how hard to stow and set up are they.

So it sounds like if I really want it all I need 3 dish's on the roof. Will they all fit up there?
Is there any combination which will reduce this count? How about a efficient combination of controllers for it all.
-- Bruce

Route 66 · 03-22-2008, 08:16 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The picture is coming into focus and it is ugly as far as I can tell, How many dish's can fit on the roof of a MADP? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure all 3 will fit, but they need to be far enough apart so as not to interfere with one another in relation to one blocking the satellite view of another.

I have 2 dishes on my rig, both MotoSAT's.

One for DirecTV, the old 3 LNB, that may soon get upgraded to a 5 LNB, and a Datastorm F1 for the internet.

The MotoSATs work so well, I wouldn't consider another brand.

Bill Adams · 03-22-2008, 08:27 AM

A Google search tells me that an MADP must be a Newmar coach but not much more!
There's lots of room up there and Newmar usually provides one conduit from the roof to one cabinet where the various TV receivers and controllers will be located. If you plan to have 3 roof mounted antennas (really?) you are going to have to make some serious plans ahead of time. The MotoSAT Datastorm antenna (internet) will require 1 custom control wire plus 2 RG6 coax cables. The in-motion TV antenna will require 1 or 2 coax cables plus possibly a control cable (depending upon the brand) and the MotoSAT or Winegard slimline antennas are going to require a control cable and 2 to 4 coax cables (depending upon how many receivers you have).
To complicate things even further, each TV is likely going to need its own receiver if you want to watch HD on more than just one TV. The RV manufacturers are moving quickly to put HD TV's all through the coach but making no arrangements to get that HD signal with anything other than your roof top over-the-air antenna. Most HD receivers have an HDMI, RCA and/or composite output. This requires that cables be run directly from that receiver to an HD capable TV. In most cases this is nearly impossible as an after-market option so it must be arranged for during construction.
The next complication is that if you have 2 roof mounted TV antennas you will have to be able to switch between a signal LNB input and a 5 LNB setup when you are using one or the other. This often means that you will need to re-run the receivers setup routine each time you change antenna options and some kind of a multiple A/B switch setup.
If you decide to use a ground mount for TV then you have to find a way to get new cables into the coach (there are not usually any connections for satellite TV outside) to each receiver. Most people just run the cables through a window or drill holes in the RV side wall and install a plate with coax connections. For multiple receivers/DVR's that means 2, 3 or more cables.
The satellite internet side is much easier in that this will be a dedicated connection and can be installed nearly anywhere in the coach, with or without Newmar's pre-set conduit.
If you have a space anywhere in the coach that is not in a slide-out and has 120 volt power the Datastorm interior hardware can be located there. The equipment includes a wireless router so no matter where this hardware is located you can use your computers where you choose.
Have fun trying to "have it all" but you may have to make a compromise on your TV options somewhere.

brucedelta · 03-23-2008, 05:42 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bill Adams:
A Google search tells me that an MADP must be a Newmar coach but not much more!
There's lots of room up there and Newmar usually provides one conduit from the roof to one cabinet where the various TV receivers and controllers will be located. If you plan to have 3 roof mounted antennas (really?) you are going to have to make some serious plans ahead of time. The MotoSAT Datastorm antenna (internet) will require 1 custom control wire plus 2 RG6 coax cables. The in-motion TV antenna will require 1 or 2 coax cables plus possibly a control cable (depending upon the brand) and the MotoSAT or Winegard slimline antennas are going to require a control cable and 2 to 4 coax cables (depending upon how many receivers you have).
To complicate things even further, each TV is likely going to need its own receiver if you want to watch HD on more than just one TV. The RV manufacturers are moving quickly to put HD TV's all through the coach but making no arrangements to get that HD signal with anything other than your roof top over-the-air antenna. Most HD receivers have an HDMI, RCA and/or composite output. This requires that cables be run directly from that receiver to an HD capable TV. In most cases this is nearly impossible as an after-market option so it must be arranged for during construction.
The next complication is that if you have 2 roof mounted TV antennas you will have to be able to switch between a signal LNB input and a 5 LNB setup when you are using one or the other. This often means that you will need to re-run the receivers setup routine each time you change antenna options and some kind of a multiple A/B switch setup.
If you decide to use a ground mount for TV then you have to find a way to get new cables into the coach (there are not usually any connections for satellite TV outside) to each receiver. Most people just run the cables through a window or drill holes in the RV side wall and install a plate with coax connections. For multiple receivers/DVR's that means 2, 3 or more cables.
The satellite internet side is much easier in that this will be a dedicated connection and can be installed nearly anywhere in the coach, with or without Newmar's pre-set conduit.
If you have a space anywhere in the coach that is not in a slide-out and has 120 volt power the Datastorm interior hardware can be located there. The equipment includes a wireless router so no matter where this hardware is located you can use your computers where you choose.
Have fun trying to "have it all" but you may have to make a compromise on your TV options somewhere. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A MADP is a 45' Newmar coach. I am in the process of specing an order for a new unit, So that is why I want to figure this all out. Clearly newmar does what is common with their standard wiring, so I want to customize it to be as flexible as I can. You are absolutely right about needing a routing for HD signals. My current thought is to use a HDMI matrix switch like this:
HDMI matrix switch

That would allow up to 4 sources and 4 displays. In the case of the MADP there are likely to be 4 displays as follows: Main living area, Front Overhead, Bedroom, and external entertainment center.
I figure 2 DVR DirectTV units, and a BlueRay player, and a HTPC for the 4 inputs. I will also try to have them run conduit to allow for upgrades. Obviously if I locate the equipment centrally I will need to set up a RF remote system also.

I have assumed I just use a multiswitch on the LNB feeds like I do at home, does thsi work with the RV systems? As I think about it I am guessing the inmotion has a problem with the multiswitch since it wants to focus on only 1 satellite. But the 5LNB HD dish should be fine with a multiswitch.

I realize the Motosat for intenet is easy as I just have to have a reciever somewhere with a wifi router attached to it. I guess I was hoping the Bird on a wire function would do HD, but apparently that is not the case.

Since even I think it would be crazy to put 3 roof mount antenna's up there I am guessing 1 will need to be a tripod. So the question becomes which is a easier tripod to set up, Data or HD.

The other question becomes what is the difference between the KVH R5 & R6? Since the R6 is billed as HD I am guessing it gets the non MPEG4 HD, which is what I have in my home. I get the local HD via a Over The Air UHF antenna, which is how the original HD Tivo was set up. In actuality the picture is supposed to be better than the MPEG4, but I doubt it would be easy to differentiate them.