Low CCC for Canyon Star 3612!!!

[reubenray]

One dealer checked into the 1399 CCC and it is correct. I can upgrade to the 26,000 lb chassis for $1,750. I think this would be my best and/or only option.

Are there any negatives to do this? I don't know why Newmar would build something that has such a low CCC.

[Sky_Boss]

Originally Posted by reubenray

One dealer checked into the 1399 CCC and it is correct. I can upgrade to the 26,000 lb chassis for $1,750. I think this would be my best and/or only option.

Are there any negatives to do this? I don't know why Newmar would build something that has such a low CCC.

To convince you that you need a DP?

Seriously...

IMHO, Newmar coaches run on the heavy side as a whole. The additional rating nets out about 1900# increase in NCC. It is all added to the rear axle which SHOULD be good. There is NO increase in the GCWR so you are still limited to 30K max but that shouldn't be a problem unless you really stuff that baby to the gills...if you can.

A few other thoughts.

The 3612 has the dinette on the curb side which let you look over your patio instead of your neighbors. The 3650 moves it to the driver side.

There are 2 residential refer options to consider. One 10 CF with 2 "extra" batteries (4 total?) and the other is a 19.8 CF with 6 batteries. The question is where are the batteries located? If up front then there could be some concern for front axle loading.

"All electric" is not available...doesn't have a hydronic heating system option.

[reubenray]

When we first started to look at something we wanted to find something that we could also use as a fulltime rig IF we decided to go fulltime. The additional CCC would be beneficial for that. If the front end is heavy I would have to put what I call "space killers" up there such as my satellite tripod setup.

[Sky_Boss]

Originally Posted by reubenray

When we first started to look at something we wanted to find something that we could also use as a fulltime rig IF we decided to go fulltime. The additional CCC would be beneficial for that. If the front end is heavy I would have to put what I call "space killers" up there such as my satellite tripod setup.

UM....space killers for a FT life style could be a bad option. I'm not versed in the coach's basement layout but I think you will have little in the way of pass through storage and will fill up what space you have quickly. Certainly you will need to prioritize loading to avoid these issues but your options could be limited if the front axle is already subjected to a significant load out of the factory. Again, I would do everyone possible to get some real numbers for the coach axle weights.

[Mike and Cha]

Reubenray, ours is on the 26,000 lb chassis and it handles great. For the $1750 extra it is well worth the money. When I originally bought it I thought I would need to add things to improve the handling. The dealer I bought from assured me that I wouldn't experience any handling issues and didn't need any aftermarket changes(even though I was going to have him do the work).After having it for about 8 months and putting 8,000 miles on it, I see no need to change anything as it handles and tracks great, passing trucks do not affect it, I have driven it in heavy desert winds with no problems. I don't get all those handling issues you read about in some of the various threads. And with the additional NCC it has there is no way my wife can overload it. The gas engine has plenty of power, so far we have driven it in altitudes up to about 8000 ft with no issues, 6-9% grades ect. We average around 8mpg so far, we have gotten as low as 6.5mpg(grades/mountains ect) and as high as 10mpg, but I can pretty much count on 8mpg.

We are not full timing in ours, but we have done two trips now that we were in it for a month at a time, and we had plenty of room for everything storage wise, and we were really comfotable in it. Ours has the bath and a half and 4 door fridge, which comes in handy when you are in it for extended periods of time. With the 10 gallon water heater it comes with, we both showered every night/day and always had plenty of hot water for back to back showers. Our roof mounted satellite works well with our Direct TV set up, the only time it didn't work was where trees blocked the satellite reception. Our last trip I didn't miss one baseball playoff game. This last trip we used everything we had A/C in the heat and the heat pumps when we got into the cold weather. It all worked great and kept us just as comfortable as if we were at home.

We considered going with the diesel pusher, but when we compared what ours has floorplan wise and equipment wise, the similar equiped Ventanna was going to cost us about $80,000-$90,000 more. Even though money was not the issue, I couldn't see where it was going to be worth that much more(at least not at this time). Also I can do all my own maintenance on my MH and not quite sure I could on the diesel models. Since we have bought our MH every campsite we have been in people come to look at ours, and at first look the think it's a diesel pusher. When we are out in it we feel like we are in the lap of luxury when we are supposedly "camping". I know the Ventanna and up in the Newmar diesel line are very luxurious, but Newmar puts the same quality build into the Canyon Star line as they do the diesels. Again we have been really happy with ours, we have been extremely comfortable in it, we feel that we could full time in it if we ever choose to.

Good luck in your decision, we spent about two years researching everything we could( alot on this web site) so that we could make the best decision for our needs. It is not an easy decision as there are alot of good MH's out there, and we looked at every brand and style you could think of. In the end we chose the Newmar Canyon Star because we felt that it best fit our needs. We are really happy we chose Newmar, and if we ever do change (not move up, because that is a matter of opinion) to the diesel pusher it will be a Newmar.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by Sky_Boss

THIS IS MY SOAP BOX...

You MUST find out the actual axle weights as DELIVERED first. I realize that might be impossible unless you were buying off of the lot. The problem with any NCC/CCC calculation is figuring out which axle will max out before you reach GVWR. We had a 39' Winnebago gasser with a tad of 1800# CCC but could not find a way to balance enough weight forward to use more than about 1300# of that CCC.

BTW...I have yet to see a coach where they give you that information...you have to get the dealership to get it weighed. After that you will have to guesstimate the impact of full full and propane since they will probably not fill those tanks up for you just to weigh it.

Newmar weighs each rig on all four corners before it leaves the factory, or at least they did in 2002. Then they refused to give them to the customers. Luckily when we were arguing with them a factory tech gave them to me and they matched exactly what the sticker showed.

[Route 66]

Newmar weighs each coach as it comes off the line and that info is used to generate the weight sticker.

As Mr_D notes, the factory 4 corner weights are not supplied, but you used to be able to get the 4 corner weights from the factory reps.

[Sky_Boss]

Originally Posted by Mr_D

Newmar weighs each rig on all four corners before it leaves the factory, or at least they did in 2002. Then they refused to give them to the customers. Luckily when we were arguing with them a factory tech gave them to me and they matched exactly what the sticker showed.

That is the rub for someone ordering a unit vs buying one from a lot. At least with one on the lot you can look at the sticker, do some basic math and make an educated guess on what loading issues might be present. If you order one without having at least seen a sticker on a lot of the same unit you order with similar/same options, it could be a crap shoot.

I still can't understand how any company can't provide better estimates for NCC/CCC based on standard and adding options. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put together a system that adjusts for MOST optional changes, location of those changes and then recalculate full axle weights. Even 4 corner weights wouldn't be too hard.

SIGH!

[reubenray]

Originally Posted by Sky_Boss

That is the rub for someone ordering a unit vs buying one from a lot. At least with one on the lot you can look at the sticker, do some basic math and make an educated guess on what loading issues might be present. If you order one without having at least seen a sticker on a lot of the same unit you order with similar/same options, it could be a crap shoot.

I still can't understand how any company can't provide better estimates for NCC/CCC based on standard and adding options. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put together a system that adjusts for MOST optional changes, location of those changes and then recalculate full axle weights. Even 4 corner weights wouldn't be too hard.

SIGH!

This is the main reason I have been seeking the CCC's of the 3612's I have been finding on the internet. The 1399 may have been OK, but I did not want to take the chance. I had our Tiffin weighed on the four corners last spring and with a CCC of 2224 we was a 1000 pounds under weight fully loaded. The additional 2000 pounds would put all concerns to rest. With the extra closet space in the back the DW was already figuring this could be a spot for some of her kitchen stuff being the 3612 has less cabinet space than our Tiffin has.

[reubenray]

Once it was figured out that I could upgrade the 3612 to 26000 lb chassis I relaxed on the weight issues. But I then found out that where the 24000 has a max trailer capacity of 6000 the 26000 is reduced to 4000. This is no problem with my current Equinox, but what about the future.

Does anyone have issues towing more than 4000 pounds. I am assuming the hitch is a 5000 hitch.

[Sky_Boss]

Originally Posted by reubenray

Once it was figured out that I could upgrade the 3612 to 26000 lb chassis I relaxed on the weight issues. But I then found out that where the 24000 has a max trailer capacity of 6000 the 26000 is reduced to 4000. This is no problem with my current Equinox, but what about the future.

Does anyone have issues towing more than 4000 pounds. I am assuming the hitch is a 5000 hitch.

Keep in mind that as long as you don't exceed the hitch weight and you don't exceed the GCWR and you don't exceed axle weight ratings, you are within specs. So, as long as you understand the math, you can figure out what some of the variables are.

In short...if you tow 5000# (within your hitch limit) you loose 1000# of CCC compared to towing 4000#.

Hope that helps.

Edit note - I just looked at the specs and if you loaded each axle to the rated weight you would be 500# OVER GVWR. My previous workhorse chassis had the same deal. So...the answer is still basically the same...if you subtract your total coach weight from the GVWR, you can add that to the 4000# towing capacity as long as you don't exceed hitch rating and don't exceed GCWR.

I hope I didn't confuse you more.

[Sky_Boss]

BTW...

The listed curb weight for the 2014 Equinox LT is 3922#. The LS is 150# less. Options could add some weight. CW includes full fuel. Unless you plan to pull it with extra cargo it, you should be fine. You can get it weighed now to verify its weight. Make sure that if you do the fuel tank is full and you have it loaded as you would tow it.

[rodz]

Originally Posted by reubenray

Once it was figured out that I could upgrade the 3612 to 26000 lb chassis I relaxed on the weight issues. But I then found out that where the 24000 has a max trailer capacity of 6000 the 26000 is reduced to 4000. This is no problem with my current Equinox, but what about the future.

Does anyone have issues towing more than 4000 pounds. I am assuming the hitch is a 5000 hitch.

All Canyon Stars have a gross rating of 30K lbs regardless of 24 or 26k rear springs. Add a little here, take away a little there.