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Old 02-17-2007, 12:31 AM   #1
jrr
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I would like opinions on the difference. As I narrow down the search. I am between two 06s. One a MA with 20k, 42ft and pretty much loaded. Has the mandatory Hydro hot. Can be had for 221K.
The other alternative is the TS 42ft, in 07 now an Insigna. Has the same features almost exactly as the MA, with 17K. Additionally has the FG roof. I know its list was 351K in 06. It also has a year left on the full warranty but the MA I think does as well. Price for this unit is 220K ask.
I am going blind trying to work through the "which is a better deal" process. I could use some help. I also realize that asking this question on the Newmar segment will draw some bias but that's ok.
I do appreciate your POVs.
Thanks
Jack
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Old 02-17-2007, 12:31 AM   #2
jrr
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I would like opinions on the difference. As I narrow down the search. I am between two 06s. One a MA with 20k, 42ft and pretty much loaded. Has the mandatory Hydro hot. Can be had for 221K.
The other alternative is the TS 42ft, in 07 now an Insigna. Has the same features almost exactly as the MA, with 17K. Additionally has the FG roof. I know its list was 351K in 06. It also has a year left on the full warranty but the MA I think does as well. Price for this unit is 220K ask.
I am going blind trying to work through the "which is a better deal" process. I could use some help. I also realize that asking this question on the Newmar segment will draw some bias but that's ok.
I do appreciate your POVs.
Thanks
Jack
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Old 02-17-2007, 03:31 AM   #3
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jrr, The Newmar Mountain Aire listed for about the same as the Travel Supreme in 2006, are you sure the Mountain Aire does not have the fiberglas roof as well?
In my opinion the Newmar is a better quality coach, also after model year 2005 Newmar went to a one year warranty on the coach. Ed.S
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Old 02-17-2007, 04:34 AM   #4
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2006 MADP had a 1 year warranty on house, longer warranty of other OEM options, appliances, chassis, etc. MADP also has a 1 piece fiberglass roof. Your question is like a "Ford" vs. "Chevy" question. Generally, equivalent Newmar and TS models are built on the same Spartan chassis. During my private tour of the TS plant last summer, the TS Sales Manager compared thier construction and features with Newmar. This is a rivalry that keeps each company on thier toes. Since you are considering used, inspect the MH top to bottom. Our MADP has been wonderful, but we initially had a several screw heads break on the body and door hinges and the side mounted luggage doors required a lot of adjustments. After 1 year, we are still thrilled with our decision. In many respects, a 1 year old could be in better condition than a brand new MH (if the owners are diligent with maintenance and repairs). When we were shopping for our new 2006, we found that used Newmar's demanded higher resale values than TS. Not sure why, but that was the market. Good luck.
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Old 02-17-2007, 04:37 AM   #5
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Tough call.. I think TS was started by a couple of former Newmar execs and is located practically next door to Newmar. Hence similar Amish labor pools. The two lines tend to be strikingly similar. If the TS has floor heat it probably is powered from the HydraHot. Newmar will only electric heat the floor. Might be a factor for you. Maybe make an option for option and feature for feature list to compare what you are getting in each. Service might be the real tie breaker. TS is a relatively small manufacturer and hence, if TS specific dealers are important to you for service, these could be farther apart than Newmar dealers. Have you compared insurance prices for the two coaches? Another interesting approach might be to get extended warrantee quotes for the two and see if there is much difference. How do those selling prices compare with NADA prices? It all might come down to which gives you the best final price. Good Luck!
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Old 02-17-2007, 06:38 AM   #6
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If there is a dealership near you that handles both Brands, see if you can ask the lead techs which is the better coach.

Forget what is the best deal. It's which do you (an most importantly the wife) like the most. Features and options mean nothing if you do not use and value them. Go sit and be with each coach for a several hours. Put each coach in the sleeping, eating and driving configurations. Can you get to the bathroom with the slides in? Is the kitchen and serving layout good for the person who cooks the meals? Which best fits your needs? Drive each coach, on the Interstate and a side road or two. On the Interstate, does the coach wander? Is the coach smooth riding? What happens when an 18 wheeler passes you? Are there any unaccounted for noises? If there is a CG nearby drive there and see how the coach drives in a CG. Back into a site.

Your final decision will be made on intangeables. The decision will drive you crazy until you make it. Then what ever you decide, the sun will shine and you'll never look back.

Many happy miles to you and yours,
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Old 02-17-2007, 08:10 AM   #7
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Good points. My wife ruled out the TS 43' DS04 because you can not walk from the front to rear without squeezing past the kitchen counter. The Newmar MADP 4304 has a clear path to the rear and the kitchen is very usable going down the road. I enjoy having a home cooked meal after a full day of driving. Personal choice.
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Old 02-17-2007, 02:44 PM   #8
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One thing you might keep in mind when comparing msrp list prices. Different manufacturers have different mark ups. This can be quite confusing to a buyer as most assume that all markups are the same. For example, if they look at a $300K list motorhome and a $310K list motorhome, they assume they are comparable, but the higher priced coach is more expensive because it has more equipment or is made of better materials. If they can buy the $310K coach for the same money as the $300K coach, they assume that the $300K coach is priced too high. This could be true, but in many cases the $310K coach could have a much LOWER cost than the $300K coach. So, a customer can think he made a smart choice in not letting the dealer with the $300K coach take advantage of him. In reality, the other dealer made more money than the dealer he didn't buy from.

Manufacturers know this and some take advantage of the situation. This is more prevalent in the towables, but is fairly widespread in the high line motorhomes, too. I'm sure some manufacturers boost their markups to protect their dealer's margins. Too low margins can result in dealers dropping their line. Raising markups can temporarily stop the bleeding. For example, if it gets around that a 25% discount is readily available, raising the markup will result in a higher margin for the dealer when they are hit up with a 25% discount offer.

Bottom line, Travel Supreme has a higher markup than Newmar. Nothing wrong with that, but it just means you can't compare msrp's as they are apples and oranges.


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Old 02-19-2007, 08:59 AM   #9
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Hi Lee! Its is great to see you have joined into the forum. Please keep helping us with your great answers and insight, as you have on other forums. For those of you who do not know Lee, he owns Lees Rv and had done a great job keeping us up to date on Newmar Products. He also has a great pricing tool on his web site for the products he sells ( I did not purchase my current unit from him, due to distance from NJ, pricing was great). Paul
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Old 02-19-2007, 09:42 AM   #10
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First of all thanks for everyone's input.

Ed I actually assumed the MA did have a FG roof, The TS at this level has as an option.

RV Dude No has heated floors on either. Hydro/Aqua hot is just a must have option regardless of the MFG. Great idea on the extended warrantee. I will tell you MA is 23K more on low retail than TS.

Gary Have spent enough time in drivers seats to make it one way to Fla. Both handle the same. As for floor plans, after 16 homes in 34 years we adapt rather than find one that's perfect. Although, a 42 07 Eagle with a full slide is darn near the perfect plan.

Jerry Never looked at TS with slides in but will, normally it is a mandatroy checkoff. I read various forums and see the stories. I am married to a saint but the second breakdown would be it for her. I am the oposite of Bob G. Irish/Italian, very bad but no heart attacks yet.

Lee I understand the built in fluff to give a perceived bigger discount or dealer margin. Hydro hot is 9% more on a TS than MA, same chassis, why?[retorical]. Also I will echo Paul's thanks for bringing a quality dealer's POV. I considered myself to be semi smart before I started this process.

Jack
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Old 02-19-2007, 12:03 PM   #11
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Interesting that someone brought up the "need" for Newmar and Travel Supreme to run "neck and neck.

I looked hard at the TS Select when I bought the Essex...Subtle differences made the Essex decision for me.TS used fluffier driver and passenger chairs than those on the Essex for one thing...I also can echo Lee's percentage estimate as there were comparably equipped Select's and Essex on Howard RV's lot when I was looking...A TS Select with pretty much the same chassis and house options carried a higher MSRP than the Essex.

Can't wait til the '08's are announced to see the ideas coming out of those camps...
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Old 02-19-2007, 04:05 PM   #12
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Check out the granite steps going into the Travel Supreme. Its steps are very narrow and do not allow a full foot to fit on the step. When I pointed this out to a TS executive, he agreed and said they might look into placement of the riser further back on the chassis. Both use the K2 frame, but the difference in rail use dictates at present that the TS is harder to neogiate the climb into the coach.
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Old 02-20-2007, 02:50 AM   #13
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Your post topic is regarding the TS 07 Envoy and the Newmar 06 Mountain Aire. Admittedly, I have not looked at the 07 Envoy. But, we have looked at the 06 Envoy and the 06 MADP when we were shopping a few months ago. In my opinion - unless they have made considerable improvements in the Envoy from 06 to 07 -- they are two different class units.


I like the TS line and their quality of build, but I believe the MA is a good step above the TS Envoy. I thought the Envoy was the less expensive entry level type coach TS made and did not compare to the MADPs.
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Old 02-20-2007, 03:47 AM   #14
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CWG Don't remember an issue but will check again on steps. I don't think either unit is on a K2. Mt Master I think. Both have the 400 hp cummins.

Fillitup The 42 foot is not an Envoy as such. Today the coach is called an Insigna. In 06 the MA seems to have morphed into a 07 DS. More alike than you can imagine.

Trying to figure out the line movement and competitive match up is much more difficult than what to pay. That's easy, $1 less than the bride screams over.

Jack
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