Maintenance Costs on a Newmar Essex and King Aire

[BucketList]

What kind of maintenance / repair costs should I expect on a typical K2 and K3 Spartan chassis on the 45' Essex and King Aire. I do not have a class DP now but I am considering buying one in the future. Assumptions are I drive the unit 15,000 miles annually, coach is two years old out of warranty and I do scheduled maintenance on both chassis and coach. I decided to post here because i am guessing i will get more accurate costs from owners that have Newmar coaches. So here are some specific questions that I can think of:

1) What kind of total tire mileage can I expect to get if I maintain air pressure properly and drive the coach in a resaonable manner? From previous posts I read that after the tires are 6 years old replace them. Can I excpect to get say 30,000 to 45,000 miles on a set of tires on something this heavy?

2) How often are you supposed to rotate tires and how does that work with a tag?

3) Ballpark how much are a new set of 8 Michelins installed for a coach this size?

4) How much would a engine oil / filter change, fuel filter and typical service cost annualy on chassis?

5) Transmisson oil / filter service. How often and how much?

6) Rear differential axel service. How often and how much?

7) How much money for typical annual misc. repairs to chassis and coach could I expect?

8) Chassis lubrication / greasing...suspension, etc.???

9) Besides changing oil / filter on the gen set and changing the domestic water filter, what other types of things needs to be done?

10) What else am I missing?

[GaryKD]

1. Michelin says 10 years if maintained properly. I will/should get 10 years out of my tires.

2. Unless there is abnormal tire wear, leave the tires alone.

3. Gut feel is in the area of $800/tire OTD.

4, 5, 6 and 8. Average about $700/year.

7. No amount on this one. It just depends.

9. You got it, that's about it.

10. I do not mean to offend, but your into "bean counter" items. The decision you're about to make is a life style choice. My first coach was in 1978. After the cost of the asset, (barring a major breakage) I've determine everything else is a rounding error.

On edit, if you turn out like me, the most unexpected expense and it can not be budgeted for is the wife.

[FlyingDiver]

We have an '08 King Aire (K3 chassis). I'll take a wag at your questions, but don't have time to look up stuff right now.

1. We've got about 35,000 miles now (going on 4 years old), and they have plenty of tread left. I'd expect to them to go at least double what we have now. And with proper care and inspections, I wouldn't plan on replacing them due to age until going on 10 years. We do have tire covers (MCD) that we used when parked for extended periods.

2. You don't rotate them.

3. Hmm. I think the 315/80s on the rears are around $400 each, and the 365/70s on the front are $500. That's ballpark, anyway. But you should go 8 years or so with the originals, at least. Gary's numbers include all the extras, I didn't. And I just remember seeing those numbers somewhere in the last few years. They could be way off. But I seem to recall thinking that it would be $5000-$6000 to do them all.

4. We get annual maintenance done at Spartan, and I think it's around $1200. More for 24k and 36k services. You can just get the oil and filters done cheaper elsewhere. But it's never going to be cheap. The ISX takes 45 quarts of oil...

5. I think the first was at 36,000, but I'm not sure. I'd have to get my books out for that one.

6. Same answer as #5.

7. Haven't had any chassis repairs other than annual service. The chassis has a five year warranty. Coach is so highly variable I couldn't even do a wag.

8. For us, included in #4.

9. AC unit service every year or two. Oasis service should be annual (filter and inspection), similar to generator. We have Newmar inspect the slide mechanisms every year.

10. Hmm. Same stuff as other RVs. Toilet seals, water pumps, etc. Batteries should last 5-7 years or more. We screwed up and killed ours early, but now we know better (and we had one kitchen outlet taken off the inverter to prevent the same problem).

Newmar will do the AC and Oasis inspections. We go to Spartan for the chassis. Cummins Crosspoint is an Onan shop and will send a tech to Newmar to do the generator while you're parked in their lot. Very convenient.

joe

[BucketList]

Gary and Joe...............

I love this site!! thanks for your input and taking the time. This is very helpful and Gary you are correct I started to bean count but i just like to understand things first ...........which then allows me to deal with things later on............like when the big repair bill comes. And Gary you are correct about not being able to budget the wife!! Funny very funny! Never did i think that you could get that kind of mileage or life out of a set of tires. Just had a friend tell me that he thought I would be forced to replace the tires after a certain age when i tried to have them serviced, etc. His thought was after a certain amount of time of more than say 5 years on the tire date code he thought that the tire shop would refuse to service or change a tire it due to liability. I told him that i didnt think that this sounded right but then again i am not familiar with large trucks/ buses. Thanks again guys!

[FlyingDiver]

I found the 24 month maintenance list, from a couple years ago.

joe

[Mr_D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingDiver We have an '08 King Aire (K3 chassis). I'll take a wag at your questions, but don't have time to look up stuff right now. 1. We've got about 35,000 miles now (going on 4 years old), and they have plenty of tread left. I'd expect to them to go at least double what we have now. And with proper care and inspections, I wouldn't plan on replacing them due to age until going on 10 years. We do have tire covers (MCD) that we used when parked for extended periods. 2. You don't rotate them. 3. Hmm. I think the 315/80s on the rears are around $400 each, and the 365/70s on the front are $500. That's ballpark, anyway. But you should go 8 years or so with the originals, at least. Gary's numbers include all the extras, I didn't. And I just remember seeing those numbers somewhere in the last few years. They could be way off. But I seem to recall thinking that it would be $5000-$6000 to do them all. 4. We get annual maintenance done at Spartan, and I think it's around $1200. More for 24k and 36k services. You can just get the oil and filters done cheaper elsewhere. But it's never going to be cheap. The ISX takes 45 quarts of oil... 5. I think the first was at 36,000, but I'm not sure. I'd have to get my books out for that one. 6. Same answer as #5. 7. Haven't had any chassis repairs other than annual service. The chassis has a five year warranty. Coach is so highly variable I couldn't even do a wag. 8. For us, included in #4. 9. AC unit service every year or two. Oasis service should be annual (filter and inspection), similar to generator. We have Newmar inspect the slide mechanisms every year. 10. Hmm. Same stuff as other RVs. Toilet seals, water pumps, etc. Batteries should last 5-7 years or more. We screwed up and killed ours early, but now we know better (and we had one kitchen outlet taken off the inverter to prevent the same problem). Newmar will do the AC and Oasis inspections. We go to Spartan for the chassis. Cummins Crosspoint is an Onan shop and will send a tech to Newmar to do the generator while you're parked in their lot. Very convenient. joe

You haven't priced tires laterly have you? In Sept 2010 305/70's were just over $600 each, 275/70's were $512 each.
I just replaced the starting batteries 1000CCA were $150 each and Interstate U-2200 6 volt house batteries were just over $500 for the four. The Esssex and King Aire may use AGM's and have 8 of them. That's going to be something like $3,000 to replace them.
The maintenace costs on a Newmar will be much the same as any other MH of the same size.
I do all my own filter, oil, coolant etc changes so that helps hold costs down. If I keep it up I can get the Essex I want!

[ottffss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucketList .... 10) What else am I missing?

Bucket, I am getting the impression you might be looking for some additional or even a different type of big rig cost info.. All the above costs are big rig typical for any make/model... In general, big rigs are not inexpensive to operate.

Maybe there are some other specific questions you want to ask???

Not to be negative but here's some more costs and "what if" costs to think about (approx)...

A typical fuel stop (100 gals ~ 700miles) is $400 and going up.

Batteries (8 agm) 2,500
Windshield 3,000

One 315/80 Michelin tire TODAY can easily cost you up to 1,000, they are 900 from Spartan - of course shopping can save you a couple hundred a tire - but you're not going to be able to shop much stranded roadside or in a small town.

If your Cummins is past 5yrs, The big ticket repairs are now on your nickle. (Chassis is 3 yr Spartan warranty)
A turbo is around 6,000, a head and a hole is around 8,000, EGR repairs typically 2,000. Chance of any of these nill, but possible. These type of repairs take multiple days to a week or more.

A DIY oil change is about 225. (filter $40, 10gal oil @ WalMart $150, 25 for an oil lab anaysis)
A DIY Transynd trans oil change is about 500. (filter kit $80, 400 for Transynd, 25 for an oil lab analysis)

If the house ePlex system fails 1) exceedingly few places can repair and 2) it can easily be a couple grand (mostly due to the current parts issue - search previous Irv2 Newmar threads for details).

A tow or low boy haul can push 2,000 (if you don't have tow coverage) and you can possibly have to wait a day or more to get that tow - depending on the situation.

Depending on your state/county of vehicle registration there might be sizable property/registration taxes.

A couple other thoughts - Most repairs can't typically be done at the corner garage or even the corner dealer. HD truck centers often love it when a big rig moho pulls in - high chance of being taken advantage of - unless you know some stuff.

You may experience long waits for certain parts - most notably certain house parts.

Depending on what needs repair, your ability to shop around may be extremely limited.

HydroHot/AquaHot and Oasis parts are uncannily expensive as they are sole manufacturers. A reman burner assembly is 1,200, a control box 600, and so on. See http://www.rvhydronicheaterrepair.com

If you can swing it - repairs at Nappanee (house), Charlotte (chassis), and a handful of Cummins' (engine) will be fair, accurate and almost enjoyable. If I can't fix it on the spot, I'll typically improvise until I can get to these places.

Again, not intending to be negative, but the tone of your opening question seems to indicate some concern about dipping your toe in the big rig waters... That concern may or may not be warranted without further questions/input from you on your concerns....

[BucketList]

.....Joe, Mr_D, and ottffss.......

This is exactly the info i was looking for and the comments are not coming across negative at all. Hearing these details from those who own and have paid the bills is great. None of these numbers surprise me at all...except for the costs of repairing ePlex systems. And i did get a comment a few days ago warning me on this old style system. Sounds like if i get a used unit I should try to get a newer coach with silverleaf. The cost of a windshield is less expensive than i would have guessed. And i did not think about the cost of towing!

[ottffss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucketList ...Sounds like if i get a used unit I should try to get a newer coach with silverleaf. ...

FWIW: I would NOT make ePlex vs Silverleaf a consideration in your choice of model year. ePlex is exceedingly robust and the depreciation savings of older model years will more than offset any possible downstream ePlex repair. It is also possible that the ePlex parts issue could mitigate over time.

[saydiver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucketList .....Joe, Mr_D, and ottffss....... This is exactly the info i was looking for and the comments are not coming across negative at all. Hearing these details from those who own and have paid the bills is great. None of these numbers surprise me at all...except for the costs of repairing ePlex systems. And i did get a comment a few days ago warning me on this old style system. Sounds like if i get a used unit I should try to get a newer coach with silverleaf. The cost of a windshield is less expensive than i would have guessed. And i did not think about the cost of towing!

It will take a lot fewer beans to repair the e-plex system on an older coach than to buy a 2012 King Aire.

Sue

[BucketList]

What year did ePlex cease being used and what year did SilverLeaf start being used in Newmar? Also i assume that different manaufactures possibly use different systems? Is SilverLeaf a superior system to ePlex?

[FlyingDiver]

Here's a barebones history of the multiplex system in the KGDB and EXDP. 2008 was the first KGDB model year. In it, the E-Plex system controlled both the RV systems (HVAC, Inverter, Generator, etc) and the lights/shades. The Essex also had E-Plex, but it only controlled the RV systems, not the lights/shades.

Sometime around 2010 or 2011, Newmar added a lighting/shade control system from KIB Enterprises, which the techs refer to as "KIBe" or "Kibby". This took lights/shades off the E-Plex, and you can easily tell which system is in place by the look of the light switches.

In 2012, they replaced the E-Plex totally, and went to the Silverleaf system for RV systems control.

We've had almost no issues with the RV systems control of our E-Plex, but a number of issues with the touchpads and light control relay boards. Everything is currently working correctly, expect for occasionally flakiness of one or two of the touchpads which seem to have a mind of their own on what they turn on when you try to use them. They might just need to be recalibrated again.

E-Plex has been around longer than Silverleaf, but it was mostly used in the marine (yacht) business. And the company changed hands several times in the last few years, which has caused most of the parts issues.

Silverleaf has been doing engine monitoring systems for a long time, the RV control system is relatively new, and was previously mostly used in custom bus conversions. The system Newmar uses has a lot of features that E-Plex was never able to do, and looks really nice. I'm hoping that Newmar is looking into using Silverleaf's Glass Cockpit system on the King Aire in the future.


joe

[ottffss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucketList What year did ePlex cease being used and what year did SilverLeaf start being used in Newmar?

Not sure, maybe 2010/11'ish is the switch year??? Someone will chime in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucketList Also i assume that different manaufactures possibly use different systems?

Yep. Silverleaf, Aladdin, Cestron, ePlex...... Silverleaf is relatively new in the general controls arena but a long standing excellent firm with engine monitoring systems and the like. Seems they are also offering an Aladdin replacement. Maybe they will do an ePlex replacement? Crestron is often regarded as really high end stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucketList Is SilverLeaf a superior system to ePlex?

Well, that is subjective. ePlex had a problem area in the lighting/shade controls side of things but no problems in their sweet spot of device controls (inverter, HVAC, genset, monitoring, etc). Certainly during the ePlex transition (or whatever is really going on over there) one could make a superior claim, but, ePlex is a rock solid system from the marine industry which is where you really want to see RV equipment come from. Much more robust construction typically in the marine side of things.

You can bet Newmar (or any manufacturer) does not make these coach-wide control systems changes flippantly or without solid justification and research. They are costly to learn and to change production line techniques, and due to the coach-wide nature reliability on both the installer and user ends are critical.

[Mr_D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottffss If you can swing it - repairs at Nappanee (house), Charlotte (chassis), and a handful of Cummins' (engine) will be fair, accurate and almost enjoyable. If I can't fix it on the spot, I'll typically improvise until I can get to these places.

Wasn't Spartan going to move closer or to Nappanee?