Need opinions

[harleyman134]

Me and the wife bought our first motorhome 7 months ago. It's a 2005 Mountain Aire 4304. Now that we've used it a little and after seeing what's out there my wife really likes the motorhomes with a bath and a half. At the supershow in Tampa we looked at the new Mountain Aire and the Allegro Bus, we both liked the MA better than the Bus, but both are more money than we really want to spend. I did notice that the MA is now built on the Freightliner chassis. I've been looking at my options and I noticed that in 2007/2008 the MA 4528 has what my wife is looking for and is also on the Spartain K2 chassis with the Cummins ISM engine and if I take my time I can probably find one at a price point that I'm willing to consider. My question is. is the Spartain K2 chassis and Cummins ISM engine that much better than the newer Freightline chassis with the ISL engine. Also the new MA has the urea tank that I'm not crazy about. Any thought would be appreciated.

Sonny

[clubmed98]

I'm partial to Spartan so would go with the Spartan, but some dealers I have talked with say Freightliner has really stepped up their game...time will tell..re new pollution controls on engine, they say it will have more torque and better fuel economy then the older comparable engine, but it has one more thing to fill and that costs money...I would go with what I liked and could afford...

[DriVer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by harleyman134 Me and the wife bought our first motorhome 7 months ago. It's a 2005 Mountain Aire 4304. Now that we've used it a little and after seeing what's out there my wife really likes the motorhomes with a bath and a half.

Sonny, Your observation is being responded to by the RV Industry. Bath and a half floorplans are becoming more popular year over year. One of our long time members here on iRV2 refused to buy anything less but they did find a floorplan that worked for them with a bath and a half.

Follow your own common sense and analyze your need to cost and see if both cancel each other out.

Freightliner keeps increasing their market share and there's a reason for that. They have a good product and the support infrastructure is excellent. Urea is nothing more than the pursuit of a solution to achieve a goal. Achieving the 2010 emission requirement either requires and in engine or external emission solution however it has to be met.

Good luck!

["007"]

Some 2007's have Comfort Drive & 2008's and beyond all have it makes driving a breeze.
Have owned a bath & 1/2 since 03 makes life easy.

[GaryKD]

Hi harleyman134,
Look hard for the 4528. There are several reasons.
It's 45' long. The new MAs are 43' long. In the bath and a half floor plan that is a huge difference. Check them both out, you'll see what I mean. Most of that 2' is in the rear bath. Sound like a waste, wait until you see it before any decisions are made. Flat floor to the closet? Get the 4528. A closet the wife can reach all corners,,,,get the 4528.

The rest of the differences are a moot point. Freightliner or Spartan, I could care less. I've stopped going to Charlotte for chassis service. They have become too aggressive in selling additional services. The difference in engines is another item I do not have on my list priorities.

For the new MAs the paint is spectacular. UREA engines get better fuel economy than the 2007 emission engines. Almost enough to offset the cost of the UREA. For me the UREA is not part of the decision process. The new interiors are better than in the 2007/08 coaches (IMHO). New MAs have a residential refer. Better than the absorption technology.

There are +/- to each coach. The bottom line, for the 1 1/2 bath, try for the 07/08 first. If none are to be found one can always buy a new model. For price, with no trade, take 30% off the MSRP and don't budge. With a one year warranty and factory service, dealer service become less important, one can bid a new coach out to all the dealers via the Internet.

[harleyman134]

Gary,

I didn't get a chance to look you up at the Tampa show, we spent most of our time looking at the Tiffin's, Newmar's and Anerican Eagles. We even spent the good part of a morning at Lazy Days looking at their Bus and Zephyr. At one point during the show I had come to the conslusion that the Freightliner chassis would not be a deal breaker to me, then later own I was talking to a vendor in the vendor area and he made a comment about how good the spartain chassis was on my current mh, so now I have mixed emotions. On the new MA I did like the paint and the automatic shades in the cockpit as well as the salon, that's something you don't get on the 2007's I've seen. Before we left to go to the show we made a list of things we would change if we could, for my wife it was the bath and half (another story there) and the "swoosh" they put in the carpet in the salon in our model (she thinks that is "dates" the coach) for me it was the height of the bay doors (they are a pain to get to when the slides are out) and I absolutely hate opening the pleated shades across the front of the cockpit every morning (that's my job and even though I"m getting pretty good at it I still hate it). These short comings are not enought for us to say we "gotta have that", like I told the salesman "20 years ago we wouldn't have batted an eye and signed the loan papers, but now that we are using our own money it's a whole different story." TIme is money and right now I have more time than I do money so I can look around untill I find the combination that works best for me.

PS. The different story on the bath and half, one of the first mh's we looked at was a 2008 Dutch Star with the bath and half, I thought the dealer was asking way too much for it, the wife made verbal offer of what we could live with, they wouldn't even consider it and kept coming back with a lower number and we still wouldn't budge off our number, this went on for three or four months, we finally found a "deal" (or what we considered a deal) on our current coach, a couple of months after we had bought our current coach the dealer with the DS called and said they would take our offer, I found out the other day they finally sold the coach for about $3k more than we had originally offered. If the dealer had been more reasonable he would have sold his coach 6 months before he did. Of course if we had waited we could have had out bath and half. Live and learn

[Parkerrs]

The 2007/08 will be cheaper than the new unit hands down. Like Gary said the 4528 is larger and with the bath and a half this means alot. Don't let the automatic shades be a deal breaker, for the price difference between the 4528 and the new MA you can easily afford to purchase and have installed the MCD shades on the older unit. The 07/08 should also have the "bugs" worked out which will be a year long process with the new unit. If it were me, I prefer the 2008 due to it having the flush mount windows, I don't think the '07 had these windows. The paint, if the PO has kept it up is just as nice as the new units, all though you may prefer the newer design schemes. To me the '07/08 has a much more beautiful cieling in it than the new models. As a matter of fact they now use that cieling in the new Essex models.

The ISM/ISL debate isn't that big of a deal. The new MA is essentially the Dutch Aire renamed. It has a lighter chassis (spartan MM or FL's equivelant) and house than the 07/08 models, therefore the ISL should be fine. The older model uses a Spartan K2 which is a much more robust chassis which wieghs more and with the 2 extra feet the house wieghs more so the ISM is the choice. Mileage should be comparable between the two as well as power to wieght. The 2007 model may not have the DPF if it was manufactured on an early production chassis that had the 06 spec engine. The 08's will all have a DPF I would think. My 07 KSDP was built on a chassis with the 06 spec ISL so there is no DPF to meet the 07 epa specs even though it is an 07 MH.

Unless you find one of the early builds which were still on the Spartan MM then the new units are on Frieghtliner chassis. I'm not saying that FL is bad or not up to the job, BUT. I toured the factory last April and looked at the FL going down the line in comparison to my Spartan MM. I do a lot of my own service work and what I saw mattered to me from this standpoint. Yes Frieghtliner has built the new chassis with a side radiator, but in place of the rear radiator they have built a steel framework to hang filters/filter housings and the hydraulic reservoir on. This pretty much obscures access to the front of the engine almost as bad as the rear radiator did. The Spartan chassis's all are set up with the front of the engine in plain sight and easy to access which is a big plus if you self service or a lower labor time/cost if you hire service work done. The Spartan K2 also has larger CCC and I believe but not sure about a larger towing capacity. Also if you always use the Spartan or Frieghtliner service centers nobody will say anything bad about your chassis. But if you use an independent shop or service it yourself this may form a different opinion. I know that out of curiosity I have asked the mechanics and service managers at both Cummins South, Williams Detroit/allison and one or two other certified service centers which are predominately engine or transmission facilities which service both chassis. They hands down prefer to work on a Spartan over an FL any day of the week, they also claim it to be a better chassis. I put a good bit of wieght behind their opinion since they service every brand of coach with every power combination on a daily basis. I figure that these guys see it all and should know.

As for the carpet you said dates your current coach, almost all 2007/08 MA have tile throughout except for the bedroom as standard. Tile almost never goes out of style, only the color scheme might date the unit. If you choose or can find the lighter colors then use other colors to decorate (i.e. bedspread, throw pillows) it would be easy to keep the coach looking current.

If I trade what I have now in the next few years, I'd be looking for an 07/08 MA in light colors with a bath and a half. The wife has already agreed on that, but for now we're happy with the unit we have.

[harleyman134]

Tommy,

Thanks for taking time to reply. At this point I share a lot of the same thoughts as you do. When we bought the mh it was the first one we have ever owned and we were hoping to jump out there pretty good and were hoping our first mh would be our last, now we have enjoyed it enough to know what we would really like to have we would be interested in getting something to fit our wants a little better, who knows if the stars line up just right we might stumble on something that fits our budget and wants and we just need to be able to recognize it when it happens. Thanks again for your post.

[rscindle]

My wife and I purchased a new 2004 Newmar Essex and had it until we decided we should get a new bath and a half Essex. The 04 unit had a 4502 follr plan that featured a rear bedroom. It had so much storage space that my wife had a hard time filling all the spaces. When we got the rear bath unit we did not take into consideration how much storage space we would be loosing. I can assure you that you will loose a lot of storage. We also made a bad decision regarding the U shaped dinette. It is very difficult to get into unless you are a very small person and you have a very short sofa in addition when you order the U shaped dinette.

I have owned a coach with the 400 HP ISL as well as two coaches with the ISM. The ISL got very good fuel economy at about eight and a half to nine miles per gal. The ISM is doing much worse at about 6.8. The K2 is much stronger than the chassis I had with the ISL motor and I like it much better.

Regarding the Bus, look with great care at the quality of the build between the Newmar and the Bus and I think you will see the difference with the Newmar winning with it's build quality. Go to Lazy Days and see all the Tiffin products getting repaired and speak to the new owners.

Good luck on your quest for a new ride.

Ron

[Skipper 05MA]

You may want to take a look at CoachLight's web site. They have a 2008 MA which I have seen and travelled with. It's in great shape and low mileage. It just came in on a trade for a new Essex.

[Parkerrs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipper 05MA You may want to take a look at CoachLight's web site. They have a 2008 MA which I have seen and travelled with. It's in great shape and low mileage. It just came in on a trade for a new Essex.

That unit is a 4529 instead of a 4528. It's not the bath and a half floorplan.

[Iron Man]

2007 and up Mountain Aire has comfort steer. I prefer the K2 chassis and the ISM engine. The bath and half models loose a great deal of galley storage space. I think when you compare real world numbers the 43 ft vs 45ft Mountain Aire fuel mileage wouldn't be that differnet. As with anything the new coaches has more bells and whisltes.

[bakntep]

It all depends on how you use your RV - if you plan to full, or almost full time, losing kitchen storage area in order to have an additional bath will be foolish. If all you are doing are weekends and tailgating, then it doesn't matter.

[GaryKD]

Hi bakntep,
You are correct in that it depends on how one will use the coach. It also depends on the lifestyle of the owners. We 1/2 time and use the kitchen very little. The wife makes excellent reservations. For me, the bath and 1/2 means a lot more than kitchen counter space.