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Old 05-29-2018, 09:06 PM   #29
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Based on the build quality of my 18 DS and others that have newer units, especially NAs, I would be concerned about being the first ones out. Now consider that and add they are upping production even more. Im sure it will work, but you may have to be patient as bugs are worked out. Good thing, Newmar stands behind their work and will make it right.
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Old 05-29-2018, 09:27 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winepress View Post
Based on the build quality of my 18 DS and others that have newer units, especially NAs, I would be concerned about being the first ones out. Now consider that and add they are upping production even more. Im sure it will work, but you may have to be patient as bugs are worked out. Good thing, Newmar stands behind their work and will make it right.


Well said, you know I agree
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Old 08-28-2018, 12:07 PM   #31
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Is anybody besides me a bit nervous about a new to Dutch Star digital dash? They made quite a mess of the sanicon, and I can live with that, but a new dash?
I have been flying for 40 years, owned aircraft for 26 and installed several (Garmin) glass panels in my aircraft. Of course, the FAA requires critical back up instruments in the event the glass panel fails.

I recently purchased my first Coach, a 2019 Newmar DS4018.

Before our first trip, I've had a check engine light, a tail light module failure, an engine driven AC compressor loose wire AND during the departure phase of our first outing, the new Glass Instrument Panel failed. Scheduled to go to my local FL in three weeks (earliest they could get me in).

Not sure of the wisdom by the mfr to install this panel without back up of critical instruments, i.e. air pressure, fuel/def gauges, warning lights, turn signals, speedo, tach, etc..

p.s. are the above normal shakedown issues. I have had a few other minor items, but the above electrical squawks are the most concerning...
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Old 08-28-2018, 12:27 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by TwinDriver View Post
I have been flying for 40 years, owned aircraft for 26 and installed several (Garmin) glass panels in my aircraft. Of course, the FAA requires critical back up instruments in the event the glass panel fails.

I recently purchased my first Coach, a 2019 Newmar DS4018.

Before our first trip, I've had a check engine light, a tail light module failure, an engine driven AC compressor loose wire AND during the departure phase of our first outing, the new Glass Instrument Panel failed. Scheduled to go to my local FL in three weeks (earliest they could get me in).

Not sure of the wisdom by the mfr to install this panel without back up of critical instruments, i.e. air pressure, fuel/def gauges, warning lights, turn signals, speedo, tach, etc..

p.s. are the above normal shakedown issues. I have had a few other minor items, but the above electrical squawks are the most concerning...
Howdy Twindriver. Got my ticket in 1974 and just retired in January from flying Twin Cessna 421 air ambulance single pilot autopilot for the last 17 years. Herniated disc was the final signal that this is the time to retire!

You have confirmed my worst fear, and one of my reasons to skip a year on the Dutch Stars. Sorry for your problems. Please keep us informed as to your resolution to this serious problem.
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Old 08-28-2018, 01:24 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by TwinDriver View Post
I have been flying for 40 years, owned aircraft for 26 and installed several (Garmin) glass panels in my aircraft. Of course, the FAA requires critical back up instruments in the event the glass panel fails.

I recently purchased my first Coach, a 2019 Newmar DS4018.

Before our first trip, I've had a check engine light, a tail light module failure, an engine driven AC compressor loose wire AND during the departure phase of our first outing, the new Glass Instrument Panel failed. Scheduled to go to my local FL in three weeks (earliest they could get me in).

Not sure of the wisdom by the mfr to install this panel without back up of critical instruments, i.e. air pressure, fuel/def gauges, warning lights, turn signals, speedo, tach, etc..

p.s. are the above normal shakedown issues. I have had a few other minor items, but the above electrical squawks are the most concerning...
A couple of observations and thoughts. Like you I have flown general aviation airplanes with glass cockpits since they first appeared in 2003. While most certified GA aircraft have screen redundancy most do not have redundant engine sensing units. So you can have two good screens and no engine data if the ESU goes down. Been there.

For reasons most likely associated with cost Newmar has elected to add the Optiview display to the Dutch Star without making SilverLeaf available at least as an option.

The other Newmar coaches with Optiview, like my New Aire, also have chassis data available via the SilverLeaf VMS-350 with a direct connection to the J1939 chassis bus. So if Optiview goes down most (but not all) chassis parameters are still available and easily displayed.
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Old 08-28-2018, 02:20 PM   #34
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A couple of observations and thoughts. Like you I have flown general aviation airplanes with glass cockpits since they first appeared in 2003. While most certified GA aircraft have screen redundancy most do not have redundant engine sensing units. So you can have two good screens and no engine data if the ESU goes down. Been there.

For reasons most likely associated with cost Newmar has elected to add the Optiview display to the Dutch Star without making SilverLeaf available at least as an option.

The other Newmar coaches with Optiview, like my New Aire, also have chassis data available via the SilverLeaf VMS-350 with a direct connection to the J1939 chassis bus. So if Optiview goes down most (but not all) chassis parameters are still available and easily displayed.

Maybe I am being too logical. A MH doesn't require the same redundancy nor suffer the same potential dire consequences of instrument failures in aircraft....but to provide 0 redundancy of key indications doesn't make for good marketing or real life scenarios. Makes me wonder what Newmar was thinking, i.e. your point about cost...

The above being said, I did buy the coach and now have experienced a failure on the first time out...so maybe I deserve to be banging on my own head!
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Old 08-29-2018, 05:26 PM   #35
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p.s. are the above normal shakedown issues. I have had a few other minor items, but the above electrical squawks are the most concerning...
every coach has shakedown issues....as i am sure you are aware...

IMHO, electrical in general (design, choice of components, and the execution of the design) are not a strong points with newmar....more steel and wood, with overall better workmanship and craftsmanship in those components, are their strong points....

some of these can be attributed to FL, potentially....but newmar is in charge of integrating the chassis and the house in a seamless, reliable way.....i hope that there is not a bunch of finger pointing between the two....

so anyways, sad to hear you are having issues, and hope you get through all them quickly....to lose the entire dash display, and have no back up, is, IMHO, ridiculous......yes you're not in the air, but it basically renders the coach undriveable.....

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Old 08-29-2018, 05:31 PM   #36
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I have a Garmin 770 on the dash, left of center which is my primary nav. I don't want to look down and right for nav info. The Garmin 770 shows speed. I can't think of anything else needed as backup in the event of a glass panel failure in a vehicle other than speed. Your GPS wherever you use it will have speed, your critical info to drive.
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Old 08-29-2018, 06:04 PM   #37
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I have a Garmin 770 on the dash, left of center which is my primary nav. I don't want to look down and right for nav info. The Garmin 770 shows speed. I can't think of anything else needed as backup in the event of a glass panel failure in a vehicle other than speed. Your GPS wherever you use it will have speed, your critical info to drive.
air pressure is pretty important.....
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Old 08-29-2018, 06:12 PM   #38
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Youve got a visual of aired up or not. No air no motion regarding brakes.

Gas: Keep it full and be aware of distance as we all are. Nav answers this too. Leg distances ie daily travel.

Yeah, it sucks but you have basic skills to fall back on. Just like I believe in my Air Force blindfold cockpit tests of knowing switches and positions without looking down. My engine brake switch is one that commands this discipline.
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Old 08-30-2018, 10:06 AM   #39
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Youve got a visual of aired up or not. No air no motion regarding brakes.

Gas: Keep it full and be aware of distance as we all are. Nav answers this too. Leg distances ie daily travel.

Yeah, it sucks but you have basic skills to fall back on. Just like I believe in my Air Force blindfold cockpit tests of knowing switches and positions without looking down. My engine brake switch is one that commands this discipline.

Here's the list of indications which are not available in the event one or more are triggered:
  • High coolant temp warning
  • ABS warning
  • Engine Break Indicator
  • Water in Fuel Indicator
  • Low Fuel Indicator
  • Check Engine Warning
  • Stop Engine Warning
  • Malfunction Indicator Lamp
  • Parking Brake on Warning
  • Air Brake Warning
  • Turn Signal Indicators
  • Steerable Tag Axle Warning
  • Diesel Particulate Filter Lamp
  • High Exhaust Temperature Lamp
  • Shift Inhibit Indicator
  • Transmission Warning
  • Transmission Overheat Warning
  • Fasten Seat Belt Warning
  • Fog Lamp Indicator
  • Low Windshield Washer Fluid Indicator
  • Headlight High Beam Indicator
  • Low Oil Pressure Warning
  • Low Battery Voltage Warning
  • Low Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) Warning

Many of these indicators are not critical, but some may be.

I asked if I am covered under warranty if I drive the coach and damage it because I didn't know I had a problem until it was too late. Have not heard back...


p.s. Willipaul, I have already been vocal with FL and Newmar about the spaghetti wiring I found when FL asked me to troubleshoot the steering column area
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Old 08-30-2018, 11:58 AM   #40
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Here's the list of indications which are not available in the event one or more are triggered:
  • High coolant temp warning
  • ABS warning
  • Engine Break Indicator
  • Water in Fuel Indicator
  • Low Fuel Indicator
  • Check Engine Warning
  • Stop Engine Warning
  • Malfunction Indicator Lamp
  • Parking Brake on Warning
  • Air Brake Warning
  • Turn Signal Indicators
  • Steerable Tag Axle Warning
  • Diesel Particulate Filter Lamp
  • High Exhaust Temperature Lamp
  • Shift Inhibit Indicator
  • Transmission Warning
  • Transmission Overheat Warning
  • Fasten Seat Belt Warning
  • Fog Lamp Indicator
  • Low Windshield Washer Fluid Indicator
  • Headlight High Beam Indicator
  • Low Oil Pressure Warning
  • Low Battery Voltage Warning
  • Low Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) Warning

Many of these indicators are not critical, but some may be.

I asked if I am covered under warranty if I drive the coach and damage it because I didn't know I had a problem until it was too late. Have not heard back...


p.s. Willipaul, I have already been vocal with FL and Newmar about the spaghetti wiring I found when FL asked me to troubleshoot the steering column area

Where is the spaghetti wiring inside under dash or outside in the engine bay.
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Old 08-30-2018, 02:05 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Winepress View Post
Based on the build quality of my 18 DS and others that have newer units, especially NAs, I would be concerned about being the first ones out. Now consider that and add they are upping production even more. Im sure it will work, but you may have to be patient as bugs are worked out. Good thing, Newmar stands behind their work and will make it right.
I was also concerned about buying a new model but we did so and I have not regretted it. I bought a NA shortly after the International rally in Sedalia MO, the third Newmar I have owned. I have had a few issues that have been annoying but all were fixed at the Gillette rally, my dealer or local Freightliner dealer, without any hassle, the only item left is the sanicon which I am quite sure will be fixed. Build quality has been good the Glass dash, cameras, silverleaf and other electronics make this a great little coach.
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Old 08-30-2018, 03:57 PM   #42
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Where is the spaghetti wiring inside under dash or outside in the engine bay.
Just about everywhere. I've been repairing connections since I got the coach. There is enough extra wiring in my coach to do another one.
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